Cabin releases 2nd-gen fleet of sleeper bus from SF to LA and back • Hacker News Board

Re: Cabin releases 2nd-gen fleet of sleeper bus from SF to LA and back

#131

Post by rayiner » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 1:40 PM UTC

kyralis wrote: post #128

bdauvergne wrote: post #118

There is only 600 km between the two cities (I'm french distance between SF and LA was unknown to me before :) ), a normal train (200 km/h, with TGV it would be 2h and some) would take a bit much than 3 hours; with google map I only see fields, desert and mountains for nearly 550 km, why sleep in a bus ?

Because Republicans hate public transit. (And, to be fair, we rather suck at infrastructure for a variety of complex reasons, which explains part of the Republican resistance to such projects.)

High speed trains are “public” transit in the very loosest sense. They are way too expensive to be used by ordinary people on a regular basis. The California HSR was supposed to be $80-100 each way. Multiply that by four for a family trip and compare it to the cost of driving. And even that price is optimistic. A trip from DC to New York on the NER booked a month out for my family, two adults two half-price kids, is $750 round trip. Driving is a fraction of that. That’s for a non-high-speed, already built line that recovered its capital costs decades ago. On a trip that’s half as long.

HSR ends up being a heavily subsidized option for upper middle class people and business travelers. (Look at who is in a typical Acela or even Northeast Regional train.)

So to be more precise, there is no HSR in California because (1) the fact that we suck at infrastructure projects makes it a very expensive proposition; (2) that taxpayer funded expense would go to benefitting a relatively small and well off set of people living in SF and LA.

(Also, which “republicans?” California doesn’t have a single republican in elected statewide office.)

Re: Cabin releases 2nd-gen fleet of sleeper bus from SF to LA and back

#132

Post by garmaine » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 1:50 PM UTC

bdauvergne wrote: post #118

There is only 600 km between the two cities (I'm french distance between SF and LA was unknown to me before :) ), a normal train (200 km/h, with TGV it would be 2h and some) would take a bit much than 3 hours; with google map I only see fields, desert and mountains for nearly 550 km, why sleep in a bus ?

Because there is literally no train service between SF and LA—you have to go out of your way to transfer. The train stations are far outside of the city where you want to be. And our trains are SLOW. Less than 100km/h. It takes 8+ hours on a train.

Re: Cabin releases 2nd-gen fleet of sleeper bus from SF to LA and back

#133

Post by garmaine » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 1:51 PM UTC

atomwaffel wrote: post #104

synaesthesisx wrote: post #100

While this is a cool concept (especially the suspended, likely over-engineered sleeping platforms), I can’t see sense in the business model with this type of pricing. Cabin charges $120 each way for an 8 hour bus ($240 round trip), while you can get a round-trip flight for less than half that with any of the major carriers ($107 for LAX - SFO, $91 for LAX-OAK RT). As someone that regularly travels between LA and SF,…

I’m not sufficiently familiar with the geography of SF or LA – how does the door-to-door time and cost compare when you account for the fact that most trips don’t actually start and end at an airport? I’d much rather catch a sleeper bus/train in the city centre in the evening, sleep for 7–8 hours (something I’d be doing anyway) and wake up in another city centre the next morning with a full day ahead of me than deal…

Most trips don’t actually start and end at the bus depot either.

Re: Cabin releases 2nd-gen fleet of sleeper bus from SF to LA and back

#134

Post by bdauvergne » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 2:04 PM UTC

garmaine wrote: post #132

bdauvergne wrote: post #118

There is only 600 km between the two cities (I'm french distance between SF and LA was unknown to me before :) ), a normal train (200 km/h, with TGV it would be 2h and some) would take a bit much than 3 hours; with google map I only see fields, desert and mountains for nearly 550 km, why sleep in a bus ?

Because there is literally no train service between SF and LA—you have to go out of your way to transfer. The train stations are far outside of the city where you want to be. And our trains are SLOW. Less than 100km/h. It takes 8+ hours on a train.

There is a lot of way to accelerate an existing line: pendulation, remove curves, add more railways along the existing line, remove stops, on a straight railway any train can go at more than 200km/h. As for the transfer, underground/raised metro lines from the centre to the railway station in the suburbs ? Most of the new TGV station are now done outside city centre in France (for the same reason than here, surface is expensive near city centre).

Re: Cabin releases 2nd-gen fleet of sleeper bus from SF to LA and back

#135

Post by eternalny1 » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

atomwaffel wrote: post #104

synaesthesisx wrote: post #100

While this is a cool concept (especially the suspended, likely over-engineered sleeping platforms), I can’t see sense in the business model with this type of pricing. Cabin charges $120 each way for an 8 hour bus ($240 round trip), while you can get a round-trip flight for less than half that with any of the major carriers ($107 for LAX - SFO, $91 for LAX-OAK RT). As someone that regularly travels between LA and SF,…

I’m not sufficiently familiar with the geography of SF or LA – how does the door-to-door time and cost compare when you account for the fact that most trips don’t actually start and end at an airport? I’d much rather catch a sleeper bus/train in the city centre in the evening, sleep for 7–8 hours (something I’d be doing anyway) and wake up in another city centre the next morning with a full day ahead of me than deal…

To be fair, most trips don't actually start and end at a bus, either.

Re: Cabin releases 2nd-gen fleet of sleeper bus from SF to LA and back

#136

Post by TheDong » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 2:08 PM UTC

jmpman wrote: post #79

The concept has just one niche I can see (besides people who are scared of flying)... getting into downtown SF before 8am without the chance of your flight being delayed due to fog. If you absolutely need to be at a meeting at 8am, currently you’re flying in the night before, grabbing an Uber from SFO to a hotel generally close to your morning meeting, hoping you’ll get a good night sleep and then dealing with the mo…

> Which in a strange way will alleviate Bay Area housing shortage - when you’re living in an RV, do you care how far away it’s parked from work if it’s self driving?

I can't wait to park my RV 30 miles away from work, go to sleep, and be woken up at 4am due to jostling and rush-hour noise as a fleet of hundreds of RVs all try to self-drive themselves into the city.

I can't wait to use one of the least fuel-efficient vehicles possible, and make it even worse by having it drive itself around constantly to meet me at my office (since there's nowhere for it to park inside the city). It's okay, climate change will only be killing the people who can't afford their own personal RV.

Re: Cabin releases 2nd-gen fleet of sleeper bus from SF to LA and back

#137

Post by garmaine » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 2:08 PM UTC

bdauvergne wrote: post #134

garmaine wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there is literally no train service between SF and LA—you have to go out of your way to transfer. The train stations are far outside of the city where you want to be. And our trains are SLOW. Less than 100km/h. It takes 8+ hours on a train.

There is a lot of way to accelerate an existing line: pendulation, remove curves, add more railways along the existing line, remove stops, on a straight railway any train can go at more than 200km/h. As for the transfer, underground/raised metro lines from the centre to the railway station in the suburbs ? Most of the new TGV station are now done outside city centre in France (for the same reason than here, surface i…

Infrastructure projects in America are fucked for a variety of reasons that other posters in this thread discuss. Basically each of those options end up being super expensive, subject to unending legal challenges, and exist in a regulatory environment that does NOT support changing the status quo.

Re: Cabin releases 2nd-gen fleet of sleeper bus from SF to LA and back

#138

Post by tedd4u » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 2:17 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #76

seandougall wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't underestimate that hassle when comparing durations. I once dropped my spouse off at OAK, drove down the 5, and picked her up at BUR. She had time to eat dinner at the airport, but otherwise she really didn't get there much before me.

Were you driving 120 mph? Airport to airport it should take maybe 2.5 hours (1 hr before flight + 1.5 for the flight) versus the 5 hr to drive between the two.

Refer to MythBusters episode 221, "Traffic Tricks.": https://mythresults.com/traffic-tricks

For journeys shorter than 400 miles, driving is faster than flying. PLAUSIBLE

The Build Team had a race of 380 miles (610 km) from San Francisco to Los Angeles, between Tory on a plane, and Kari and Grant driving. The bottlenecks of air travel (arriving early to get through security, waiting for the plane to start boarding, retrieving luggage at the destination, and renting a car) delayed Tory significantly. Kari and Grant had fewer such delays, but did have to stop for gas and food at one point, and traffic in and near the larger cities did slow them down. Kari and Grant arrived at their destination after 5h 33m; Tory was slightly faster, at 5h 25m. Because of the close result and variables that could alter the result either way, this myth was declared plausible.

Re: Cabin releases 2nd-gen fleet of sleeper bus from SF to LA and back

#139

Post by exabrial » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 2:21 PM UTC

ummwhat wrote: post #121

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love taking Amtrak, but my god the food is terrible.

I took the California Zephyr all the way to Chicago and then continued my rail trip on to New York. While the dining experience differs depending on the route, I can tell you first hand that on my way to Chicago I was slamming back steak and clams. Couldn't believe it was included in the ticket. And also complimentary coffee. They don't tell you this, but the sleeper ticket is actually first class. I initially though…

Even the chairs in "coach class" beat Delta first class on a 737 by a few orders of magnitude.

Re: Cabin releases 2nd-gen fleet of sleeper bus from SF to LA and back

#140

Post by nlh » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 2:23 PM UTC

mmjaa wrote: post #124

projektfu wrote: post #116

I’d be satisfied with executive-class buses like they have in Mexico. Comfortable seats and useful timetables. I’m a veteran of overnight train service between Chicago and Pittsburgh. One thing I noticed is that cheap flights are still a huge waste of time. If you fly out Friday night, you spend all evening in airports, risk getting bumped off an overbooked flight, and arrive tired at a hotel you have to pay for as w…

I've taken similar train rides as you describe, albeit all over Europe. Trains are a delightful way to travel - and as well, get some good work done. Some of my happiest code was written while castles and rivers and villages scrolled by on the window .. In my opinion the 'long slow travel .. while sleeping/working' method of getting around is far more preferable to the 'jet age tin-can' mode, no matter how far and fa…

I agree with your sentiment entirely! One thing to point out - the ‘long slow travel while working’ mode is still possible even with tin cans. To wit:

I just had one of my most focused, productive (and enjoyable!) coding sessions of my life on a Zurich -> SFO flight. It was a day flight, 12 hours long. I was lucky enough to have a bulkhead seat in economy and conditions were perfect - it was dark (enough), I had absolute focus, unlimited coffee that got refilled automatically ;) snacks, meals, zero phone calls/distractions, and good-enough WiFi. I’ve never felt 12 hours vanish so quickly (and code appear so fluidly ;)