Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914 • Hacker News Board

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#281

Post by benj111 » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 1:17 PM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #135

tastyfreeze wrote: post #82

This happened due to extermination of soil life through modern farming practices of heavy tilling, fertilizing and monoculture crops. Dead soil is more susceptible to erosion and requires ever increasing amounts of synthetic fertilizer to grow anything. More soil has been lost from the US than the amount of food that has been produced. Soil fertility can be returned to historical levels by changing farming practices…

> The benefits of treating the soil as a living organism include increased fertility This is a pretty interesting (and correct) point, and there's a lot to say about it from a few different perspectives. You get much higher all-inclusive yields from a unit of land by growing several different crops in the same space. They (can) complement each other, using different resources from the ground and providing resources t…

Robots?

They can be your peasants.

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#282

Post by warbird » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 1:36 PM UTC

nathan_f77 wrote: post #274

_xnmw wrote: post #249

I’ve been living in Ukraine for the past few months, trying to figure out why the food here, especially the vegetables, simply taste so good . The very same dishes (e.g. steak and veggies) from popular mid-range restaurants are far more enjoyable to me over here in Kiev than I ever ate in Canada. When I went back to Canada for a brief visit, my body was craving Ukrainian food. Now this study on vegetable mineral cont…

Wow, I wonder if this is why I thought the food was so bad in San Francisco after I moved there from New Zealand. We went to a lot great restaurants, but I remember thinking that the restaurants in New Zealand was 100x better. We have an amazing cafe/restaurant scene in NZ, and I never found anything in San Francisco that could come close to a nice brunch in Auckland. (I was trying almost every place that had a good…

This is close to what I was looking for in this thread. Don't want to clutter with anecdotal chat, but:

I worked in Australia some years ago (2015) and I was amazed by the taste of vegetables (and meat, as well, just less so). The experience sounds banal I suppose, but I really felt that my quality of life had improved. In the U.S. I feel totally unexcited by vegetable shopping, and I sometimes feel that I am simulating cooking. In Australia two vegetables and a small piece of lamb or beef completely satisfied me.

This article led me to the same thought found in your conclusion, but I'm hoping someone on HN has expertise in Aussie/Kiwi farming and can offer some perspective.

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#283

Post by alrs » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 1:49 PM UTC

maxlybbert wrote: post #278

dmix wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are nutritional supplements a sufficient solution for the full 17(?) in the meantime? I've heard many people say they get their nutrients from eating enough vegetables where the don't need any pills or vitamins. I'm curious how true this is as the internet doesn't offer much clarity. Not to mention the always vague scientific literature about multivitamins and other supplementations. Or the extremes like Ray Kurizwel…

The funny thing is that current advice is that nutrition supplements aren’t necessary. I finally got around to taking a “one a day” pill every day, but stopped when I read in the “American College of Sports Medicine’s Complete Guide to Fitness and Health (2nd Ed)”: “If you are thinking about taking a multivitamin–mineral supplement, you should analyze your diet first to assess if a supplement is required. The best wa…

The supplements-aren't-necessary-advice is often the lawerly "you don't need supplements if you're not malnourished" or "if you're getting a balanced diet."

Left unsaid is my takeaway: modern agriculture has damaged our food supply to the point where a nourishing and balanced diet isn't readily available in the produce section of your local supermarket. If you're eating stunted frankenfood, you need to supplement, because you're malnourished from eating an unbalanced diet.

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#284

Post by bonniemuffin » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 1:56 PM UTC

maxlybbert wrote: post #278

dmix wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are nutritional supplements a sufficient solution for the full 17(?) in the meantime? I've heard many people say they get their nutrients from eating enough vegetables where the don't need any pills or vitamins. I'm curious how true this is as the internet doesn't offer much clarity. Not to mention the always vague scientific literature about multivitamins and other supplementations. Or the extremes like Ray Kurizwel…

The funny thing is that current advice is that nutrition supplements aren’t necessary. I finally got around to taking a “one a day” pill every day, but stopped when I read in the “American College of Sports Medicine’s Complete Guide to Fitness and Health (2nd Ed)”: “If you are thinking about taking a multivitamin–mineral supplement, you should analyze your diet first to assess if a supplement is required. The best wa…

Costco multivitamins cost 2 cents per pill. I don't think saving money is a good reason to try to get all your minerals from whole foods.

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#285

Post by mbell » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 2:12 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #246

mbell wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Soil fertility can be returned to historical levels by changing farming practices to make living soil. Seems easier to just add the missing minerals/chemicals to the soil.

Isn't that kind of thinking what got us here in the first place? We may not even know the full range of micro-nutrients that the soil has been depleted of.

> We may not even know the full range of micro-nutrients that the soil has been depleted of.

You may not know the full range of micro-organisms needed or how to care for them to achieve this 'living soil'. Taking agriculture backward a hundred years isn't a path forward.

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#286

Post by aitchnyu » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 2:54 PM UTC

maxlybbert wrote: post #278

dmix wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are nutritional supplements a sufficient solution for the full 17(?) in the meantime? I've heard many people say they get their nutrients from eating enough vegetables where the don't need any pills or vitamins. I'm curious how true this is as the internet doesn't offer much clarity. Not to mention the always vague scientific literature about multivitamins and other supplementations. Or the extremes like Ray Kurizwel…

The funny thing is that current advice is that nutrition supplements aren’t necessary. I finally got around to taking a “one a day” pill every day, but stopped when I read in the “American College of Sports Medicine’s Complete Guide to Fitness and Health (2nd Ed)”: “If you are thinking about taking a multivitamin–mineral supplement, you should analyze your diet first to assess if a supplement is required. The best wa…

I am also worried they put toxic doses of vitamins and minerals. My hair supplement used to contain 10000 micrograms of biotin and caused acne. Other supplements put 100 micrograms. Melatonin doses also vary too wildly, like 4x. They seem to be concerned about bragging rights at our expense.

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#287

Post by aitchnyu » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 3:04 PM UTC

jryan49 wrote: post #34

wil421 wrote: post #2

The link got that actual paper is much better than a sentence or two on LinkedIn. The paper’s title isn’t as catchy to put in nicely. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6163803/ From my link: >It is important to note that the USDA mineral content of vegetables and fruits has not been updated since 2000, and perhaps even longer, given that the data for 1992 was not able to be definitively confirmed for this…

Why not just add minerals to our fertilizers? Organics is such a regression after the green revolution (which has saved billions of lives).

Chuckled. HN taught me that nitrogen fixing used to be a natural bottleneck to human population growth and factory-made nitrates made calories cheaper and caused a population explosion. And farming practices left the land less suitable for feeding them.

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#288

Post by artificialidiot » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 3:10 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #242

chimi wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right! They throw on Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium, but they do not add the other 14 elements, which yes, carbon, hydrogen and oxygen come from CO2 and H2O. But they also need iron, cobalt, selenium and others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_nutrition

Are nutritional supplements a sufficient solution for the full 17(?) in the meantime? I've heard many people say they get their nutrients from eating enough vegetables where the don't need any pills or vitamins. I'm curious how true this is as the internet doesn't offer much clarity. Not to mention the always vague scientific literature about multivitamins and other supplementations. Or the extremes like Ray Kurizwel…

my own experience is that I have to eat a sickening amount of meat to get enough minerals so I started to get some supplements. apparently vegs that I can buy are little more than starch and sugar.

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#289

Post by copperx » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 3:30 PM UTC

ssijak wrote: post #272

chrisco255 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn't. B12, K2 and DHA based Omega-3s that your brain runs on are non existent in plant foods. Cholesterol, Choline, calcium, Vitamin D are difficult to come by in plant based diets. Finally, the plant based form of Vitamin A (beta carotene) is only bioavailable to humans in 0-8% of the quantities consumed depending on your individual genetics. And women can convert this better than men.

Plainly false, read my comment (search for ssijak on the page) in this thread about b12, k2, vit D and dha so I dont repeat myself. Regarding cholesterol, why would I need any additional cholesterol? Liver and cells make enough for what the body needs. Choline RDA is questionable and European food agencies are lowering RDA for Choline. But anyhow when I track my food intake through apps like Cronometer I consume RDA…

If you take a dive on PubMed you'll find again and again that people with nutrient deficiencies have a longer lifespan, for some reason.

It occurred to me that nutrient deficiency might be an indicator of inadequate caloric intake, which might explain the increased lifespan.

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#290

Post by mythrwy » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 3:39 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #250

mythrwy wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it also happens because of synthetic fertilizers (and possibly modern genetics). It's a race to grow as big a product in as short of time as possible which causes the mineral ratios to be different. A tomato which takes months to grow and ripens on the vine has more time to assimilate minerals than a tomato that is "pushed" with synthetic fertilizers, then snatched off the vine unripened and ripened with ethy…

Must be one hell of a tomato if it takes multiple months to grow. I’ve only grown ones that take a few weeks.

(pasted from the webz)

Standard-sized tomatoes take 20 to 30 days from blossom set to reach full size–commonly called “mature green”; they take another 20 to 30 days to ripen, that is begin to change color.