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Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#221

Post by atomi »

tastyfreeze wrote: post #82

This happened due to extermination of soil life through modern farming practices of heavy tilling, fertilizing and monoculture crops. Dead soil is more susceptible to erosion and requires ever increasing amounts of synthetic fertilizer to grow anything. More soil has been lost from the US than the amount of food that has been produced. Soil fertility can be returned to historical levels by changing farming practices…

+1 on Living Web Farms. They have a lot of great videos about sustainable farming practices. I've learned a lot from the whole gang there - but especially from Mr. Pat Battle. If you have any interest in learning how to grow some of your own food, you should check them out.

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#222

Post by ip26 »

bt848 wrote: post #24

These are normalized mass rates, ie grams per gram of plant mass. However, the mass yield per acre of cabbage has radically increased over that time period. Is it possible that a cabbage plant is capable of absorbing an absolute amount of minerals, and this is simply being diluted by ever-larger cabbages?

Ten fold larger?

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#223

Post by chimi »

tmp190914pn2 wrote: post #194
01100011 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly disagreeing with you, but it seems like increasing yields and inadequate fertilization focusing on macronutrients would also explain the drop. If I grow crops that preferentially absorb certain minerals and then take away most of the vegetable matter from the plot, the soil content of the absorbed minerals is going to drop without something to replenish it. Now, I'm not saying soil bacteria and mychorrhiz…

Both parent and grandparent are saying something important here. Mineral availability from the microbiome via root interactions is critical. But throw nitrogen at a plant and it will rapidly grow utilizing CO2, O2 and water, leaving a mineral deficient plant. And that is true in any soil. Also, modern plants have been selected to be large and tender, which tends to be inversely coorelated to mineral density. So it's…

That's right! They throw on Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium, but they do not add the other 14 elements, which yes, carbon, hydrogen and oxygen come from CO2 and H2O. But they also need iron, cobalt, selenium and others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_nutrition

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#224

Post by cryptopeeper »

My chiropractor warned me about this. He said everyone is deficient in vitamins and minerals because of our food. He suggested an extreme pill popping routine, which was difficult to do. Does anyone agree with this approach? I was taking so many vitamins it made me feel sick. I can't remember the name of the routine, but I researched it online. I think it was used to treat schizophrenia.

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#225

Post by chimi »

chii wrote: post #216
api wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get what you incentivize. Produce is typically sold by weight.

produce rich in nutrients are typically also tastier. However, modern groceries (such as massive chain stores) require huge logistics and scale, and thus expect farmers to produce a steady, homogenous and sturdy crop that also happen to lack nutrients. It's unfortunate that for the produce to be cheap, it has to be done the way it is today. Not everybody can afford to have "organically grown" heirloom tomatoes, becau…

heirloom crops are not as productive. I grew many different varieties and some of the plants engineered for greenhouses would produce 5x as many tomatoes per plant than heirlooms in the same greenhouse, getting the same amount of water and fertilizer -- and they still tasted good. Much better than typical grocery store tomatoes. More modern varieties are also more resilient to disease and pests.

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#226

Post by zenon »

NickM wrote: post #55

Something that has puzzled me recently: how is anyone supposed to get the daily recommended amount of potassium? If you look at foods like bananas that are supposed to be good sources of it, you still need to eat something like eleven bananas a day to get enough (according to US recommended daily intakes, anyway). At least with the minerals mentioned in this posting, you can fall back on supplements if you need to...…

Tubers and root vegetables and are about equivalent to bananas in potassium content. Some fruits have a bit less, and some a bit more. Leafy greens have about the same level of potassium per unit of weight, much more per calorie.

11 bananas worth is about 1000 calories. So if you get about 1/2 of your calories from varied non-grain plant foods, you should be good.

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#227

Post by dr_dshiv »

Fascinating discussion, just noticed the article is about magnesium deficiency.

Magnesium pills! I love those things. The only supplement I take, because it gives such a direct brain-fog lifting effect and makes me poo good. Real good. A must before international travel.

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#228

Post by sooheon »

chimi wrote: post #86
wil421 wrote: post #2

The link got that actual paper is much better than a sentence or two on LinkedIn. The paper’s title isn’t as catchy to put in nicely. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6163803/ From my link: >It is important to note that the USDA mineral content of vegetables and fruits has not been updated since 2000, and perhaps even longer, given that the data for 1992 was not able to be definitively confirmed for this…

I used to run an organic farm experimenting with hydroponics and I did a ton of research on this. What I found, organic does not mean healthier. In fact, a larger percentage of food related illnesses are reported for organic foods than foods without the organic label, which itself is controversial and misleading. This is largely due to the types of fertilizer used. Animal waste is used to fertilize organic foods. Yes…

> Only 17 elements are required to grow a plant and these elements can be provided entirely through hydroponics

This claim is diametrically opposed to the "soil as living organism" claim above. What gives you confidence that there is no interaction between soil, fungi mycelium, plant roots, worm dung microorganisms etc. that you could possibly be missing?

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#229

Post by sooheon »

robbiep wrote: post #213
AdamN wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not totally true. I remember as a kid going to my grandfather's farm in Iowa and there would be an alfalfa rotation every 6 years I believe. Now they don't bother with that anymore since the fertilizers/seeds and other treatments mean that the low value alfalfa no longer needs to be in the mix. Fertilizer is like doping. It works! But it comes at a long term cost. Anyway, now we can go down two paths, hyper-mo…

I have no idea how old you are but the truth is farming techniques have changed significantly, even in the last 20 years. Nowdays if you don't consider yourself a steward of the land then you aren't doing the right thing by it. My family are farmers in Australia. We are currently going through the worst drought we have ever had. We've had 7 inches of rain this year vs our annual rainfall of 26 inches. We are still gr…

> Farmers who haven't adopted these techniques are bankrupt.

If only the world were just. As you say, countries with legislature captured by farming lobbies are no longer subject to survival pressures.

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#230

Post by dmix »

api wrote: post #214
tmp190914pn2 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both parent and grandparent are saying something important here. Mineral availability from the microbiome via root interactions is critical. But throw nitrogen at a plant and it will rapidly grow utilizing CO2, O2 and water, leaving a mineral deficient plant. And that is true in any soil. Also, modern plants have been selected to be large and tender, which tends to be inversely coorelated to mineral density. So it's…

You get what you incentivize. Produce is typically sold by weight.

What's been incentivized in most countries farming-wise has had the scales significantly tipped in certain directions where it's not simply the most valuable plants/animals at the maximum weights.
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