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Interview with Edward Snowden

spiegel.de

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Re: Interview with Edward Snowden

#71

Post by iron0013 »

forgingahead wrote: post #68
slg wrote: post #18

>The class of which I am a part of, the global technological community, was for the longest time apolitical. We have this history of thinking: "We're going to make the world better." I think a lot of people in the tech community need to come to grips with the fact that you can't be apolitical in a democratic country. Refusing to engage in politics is an abdication of your role in a democratic society. You certainly h…

Please stop this. You're just buying into the false narrative, pushed specifically by media companies, that "you can't disengage". This specifically serves their purpose of creating content for the sake of conflict, in order to make money off your attention. You can disengage. In fact, I highly encourage it, and one's mental health greatly benefits from it. You're not more "enlightened" or "wise" if you follow along…

“Trust the system”?

Re: Interview with Edward Snowden

#72

Post by AnimalMuppet »

forgingahead wrote: post #68
slg wrote: post #18

>The class of which I am a part of, the global technological community, was for the longest time apolitical. We have this history of thinking: "We're going to make the world better." I think a lot of people in the tech community need to come to grips with the fact that you can't be apolitical in a democratic country. Refusing to engage in politics is an abdication of your role in a democratic society. You certainly h…

Please stop this. You're just buying into the false narrative, pushed specifically by media companies, that "you can't disengage". This specifically serves their purpose of creating content for the sake of conflict, in order to make money off your attention. You can disengage. In fact, I highly encourage it, and one's mental health greatly benefits from it. You're not more "enlightened" or "wise" if you follow along…

I would paraphrase what you're saying like this: Don't hyperengage. Don't live and die by every news cycle. Don't let outrage consume you. Don't "other" those who disagree with you. Retain your civility, and your humanity.

But, I would say, still engage to the degree of learning about the issues, learning about candidates' positions, and voting.

Re: Interview with Edward Snowden

#73

Post by lotsofpulp »

forgingahead wrote: post #68
slg wrote: post #18

>The class of which I am a part of, the global technological community, was for the longest time apolitical. We have this history of thinking: "We're going to make the world better." I think a lot of people in the tech community need to come to grips with the fact that you can't be apolitical in a democratic country. Refusing to engage in politics is an abdication of your role in a democratic society. You certainly h…

Please stop this. You're just buying into the false narrative, pushed specifically by media companies, that "you can't disengage". This specifically serves their purpose of creating content for the sake of conflict, in order to make money off your attention. You can disengage. In fact, I highly encourage it, and one's mental health greatly benefits from it. You're not more "enlightened" or "wise" if you follow along…

>Trust the system you live in, and for most HN readers, from developed western economies, things will self-correct.

The people are the system in a democracy. While I can understand not worrying about every little decision the government makes, ignoring it completely is what leads a community to decay.

Any illusion of the system self correcting is a consequence of the US and western world’s dominance after winning WW2. With the kind of economic advantage, everyone was lifted up simultaneously. The real test is what happens when resources have to start being rationed.

Re: Interview with Edward Snowden

#74

Post by claudiawerner »

forgingahead wrote: post #68
slg wrote: post #18

>The class of which I am a part of, the global technological community, was for the longest time apolitical. We have this history of thinking: "We're going to make the world better." I think a lot of people in the tech community need to come to grips with the fact that you can't be apolitical in a democratic country. Refusing to engage in politics is an abdication of your role in a democratic society. You certainly h…

Please stop this. You're just buying into the false narrative, pushed specifically by media companies, that "you can't disengage". This specifically serves their purpose of creating content for the sake of conflict, in order to make money off your attention. You can disengage. In fact, I highly encourage it, and one's mental health greatly benefits from it. You're not more "enlightened" or "wise" if you follow along…

>Trust the system you live in, and for most HN readers, from developed western economies, things will self-correct.

Why should I? Is there any evidence that things "self-correct"? Self-correct according to whose interests? Surely mine are different to yours, so we have different standards for what that "correction" entails. Have you read any normative social theory written within the past century?

Re: Interview with Edward Snowden

#75

Post by deogeo »

slg wrote: post #18

>The class of which I am a part of, the global technological community, was for the longest time apolitical. We have this history of thinking: "We're going to make the world better." I think a lot of people in the tech community need to come to grips with the fact that you can't be apolitical in a democratic country. Refusing to engage in politics is an abdication of your role in a democratic society. You certainly h…

You conflate allowing something to happen, with endorsing it.

Re: Interview with Edward Snowden

#76

Post by claudiawerner »

tyri_kai_psomi wrote: post #65
protonfish wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's even worse than you say. By avoiding politics you tacitly endorse the status quo. You can't opt out - everyone's speech and actions affect the political landscapes no matter how much you would rather pretend that you are above it.

> By avoiding politics you tacitly endorse the status quo. A statement wrong on so many levels. Good grief, we really need to start emphasizing philosophy again in our society. > no matter how much you would rather pretend that you are above it. And a very wrong assumption that people who would rather not engage in politics, or at least public displays of political affiliation somehow must all think they are "above"…

>A statement wrong on so many levels. Good grief, we really need to start emphasizing philosophy again in our society.

Ironically, many philosophers, from Rousseau to Marx to Marcuse would probably agree at least somewhat with what GP said. It's trivial - think of any "radical" philosopher (and they are usually the ones who drive change) and then I will agree with you - we need to emphasize philosophy, just not in the way you were thinking.

Re: Interview with Edward Snowden

#77

Post by icelancer »

slg wrote: post #18

>The class of which I am a part of, the global technological community, was for the longest time apolitical. We have this history of thinking: "We're going to make the world better." I think a lot of people in the tech community need to come to grips with the fact that you can't be apolitical in a democratic country. Refusing to engage in politics is an abdication of your role in a democratic society. You certainly h…

>> Refusing to engage in politics is an abdication of your role in a democratic society

I was never assigned this role. I do not accept your premise.

Re: Interview with Edward Snowden

#78

Post by icelancer »

slg wrote: post #41
skybrian wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is something specific you would like people to do, please do go ahead and advocate for it. What organizations do you support, and why? Not this content-free guilt-mongering, it doesn't help anyone.

>If there is something specific you would like people to do, please do go ahead and advocate for it. Become involved. I think the minimum you should do is to vote in every election in your municipality. One of the main causes of the problems in our current system is the atrocious voter turnout rate. You can even just submit your entire ballot blank. Politicians can't see who voted for what, but they can see if you sh…

>> One of the main causes of the problems in our current system is the atrocious voter turnout rate.

Have you considered why this is, rather than just thinking our population are a bunch of idiots who don't like to vote? Consider the incentives (or lack thereof) that make people do this.

Re: Interview with Edward Snowden

#79

Post by AnimalMuppet »

pdonis wrote: post #60
dilippkumar wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please consider alternative narratives. No. > He acted selfishly, not morally. No, he acted morally. > Deep thoughts and intellectual defenses are not so hard to construct, should not be uncritically accepted with significant corroborating evidence, and should certainly not be taken in any way to imply morality, as shown by the growing list of deep thinkers who supported and participated in Jeffrey Epstein's scheme…

> No. It's simple. Snowden = Good. Sure, if you only read his side of the story. Anyone looks good if they get to make up their own narrative about themselves. The fact is that anyone with half a brain should have known decades ago that the US government, like all governments, does all kinds of surveillance and classifies all kinds of information, and not all of it is going to be pretty. When you tell the government…

I'm with you, except for the last paragraph. There, I'm more ambivalent.

Yes, I kind of agree with you on your general point. But if we don't know what the government is doing, and we aren't going to be told, how are we supposed to hold them accountable? In general, you're right, but there does come a point at which a whistleblower is in fact necessary. Whether this one reached that point is a separate question.

Re: Interview with Edward Snowden

#80

Post by mythrwy »

insickness wrote: post #49
slg wrote: post #18

>The class of which I am a part of, the global technological community, was for the longest time apolitical. We have this history of thinking: "We're going to make the world better." I think a lot of people in the tech community need to come to grips with the fact that you can't be apolitical in a democratic country. Refusing to engage in politics is an abdication of your role in a democratic society. You certainly h…

> most people on HN can agree on is climate change. There are many aspects of the climate change issue where disagreement is reasonable. Does industrial progress need to be sacrificed to prevent climate change? How much governmental intervention is helpful? How accurate are predictions of what is coming? What is the most efficient way to prevent climate change and how effective will those actions be? There is no corr…

I also don't think it's unreasonable to question if the net magnitude and effects of human induced climate change have been (or even can be at this point) modeled well enough to make accurate predictions.

It's certainly not a consensus as far as I'm concerned although I think most reasonable people agree it's likely we are altering the climate.

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