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Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

131–140 of 315 posts

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#131
The graph of male testosterone levels looks very similar to this one. I'm not suggesting there's necessarily a correlation between the two, but modern life is taking its toll on our health.

Life expectancy may be longer in present times, but quality of life is in some ways lower (a notable exception to that is the status of even relatively minor infections, which were frequently fatal in pre-modern life).

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#132
post #10
post #4

Well there are some that say that minerals on vegetables are not bio-available for the human digestive system, so in the end doesn't make a lot of difference.

This is nonsense. Perhaps you mean something like “less bio-available compared to...”

I phrased it incorrectly, you are spot on "much less bio-available when compared with animal products"

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organic farming includes crop rotation, fertilizer, soil quality, and erosion control standards that would hypothetically affect mineral contents. Monoculture (conventional corn or soybean for example) uses huge amounts of synthetic fertilizer to increase yields per acre far beyond what the soil can naturally sustain. Wide swaths of American farmland has lost literally feet of topsoil over the past 50 years. The soil…

> Organic farming includes crop rotation, fertilizer, soil quality, and erosion control standards that would hypothetically affect mineral contents. So does ‘conventional’ farming

That's not totally true. I remember as a kid going to my grandfather's farm in Iowa and there would be an alfalfa rotation every 6 years I believe. Now they don't bother with that anymore since the fertilizers/seeds and other treatments mean that the low value alfalfa no longer needs to be in the mix.

Fertilizer is like doping. It works! But it comes at a long term cost. Anyway, now we can go down two paths, hyper-modern indoor farming which is expanding in Europe and organic farming that is growing in the US and Europe. Conventional industrial farming is going to get hit from both sides.

Also, the big things keeping corn going is sugar duties and ethanol subsidies. Without those, alot of the crop would disappear.

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#134
calcium and magnesium? that sounds familiar...the two main minerals that water softeners remove. could this be related to water filtration/softening that farmers may be using? (I don't know if they actually use filtration or not). I imagine they'd want to use softeners, as it would increase the lifespan of irrigation equipment.

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#135

This happened due to extermination of soil life through modern farming practices of heavy tilling, fertilizing and monoculture crops. Dead soil is more susceptible to erosion and requires ever increasing amounts of synthetic fertilizer to grow anything. More soil has been lost from the US than the amount of food that has been produced. Soil fertility can be returned to historical levels by changing farming practices…

> The benefits of treating the soil as a living organism include increased fertility

This is a pretty interesting (and correct) point, and there's a lot to say about it from a few different perspectives.

You get much higher all-inclusive yields from a unit of land by growing several different crops in the same space. They (can) complement each other, using different resources from the ground and providing resources to each other.

American agriculture is not set up to do this. Instead of optimizing yield as a function of land input, we optimize yield as a function of labor input, because we have tons and tons of fertile land relative to our small-for-the-size-of-the-country population. If you have one person growing food on a thousand acres of land (remember, one acre is originally "the amount of land one man can plow in a day"), it makes more sense to give that one person just one thing to do. There's no way they're going to be able to care for 5 different crops simultaneously, or even adjust their practices to better suit the specifics of individual fields. We prefer to get a lot of land under low-labor cultivation, even though the cultivation isn't very effective, because our tiny population doesn't require high agricultural yields per unit land.

A more traditional model involves starving peasants intensively cultivating scarce land. With cheap and abundant labor inputs, you can get much more from one unit of land. But most of that increase goes to feeding the peasants who provide the labor. This is similar to how models of the effect of immigration on American GDP tend to show large increases in GDP -- the benefits of which, if you account for them, mostly accrue to the new immigrants.

I don't think there's an easy way to combine the ideas of "infinite cheap peasant labor gives us higher agricultural yields" and "a middle-class lifestyle should be in reach for everybody". Americans are rich, from a historical and current-rest-of-the-world perspective, specifically because we use so few people to grow food. One guy with enough food to feed three million people is a huge benefit to the rest of the country, and he's personally stinking rich. Five million peasants in huts who collectively produce enough food to feed 5,100,000 people are all dirt poor, and they produce only a minor benefit to the rest of the country.

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#136

This happened due to extermination of soil life through modern farming practices of heavy tilling, fertilizing and monoculture crops. Dead soil is more susceptible to erosion and requires ever increasing amounts of synthetic fertilizer to grow anything. More soil has been lost from the US than the amount of food that has been produced. Soil fertility can be returned to historical levels by changing farming practices…

Not exactly disagreeing with you, but it seems like increasing yields and inadequate fertilization focusing on macronutrients would also explain the drop. If I grow crops that preferentially absorb certain minerals and then take away most of the vegetable matter from the plot, the soil content of the absorbed minerals is going to drop without something to replenish it. Now, I'm not saying soil bacteria and mychorrhiz…

Not even focusing on macronutrients. We’re just focussing in mass.

I’m not looking forward to the end of tomato season and the inevitable disappointment when I buy them from the grocery store.

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#137
post #2

The link got that actual paper is much better than a sentence or two on LinkedIn. The paper’s title isn’t as catchy to put in nicely. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6163803/ From my link: >It is important to note that the USDA mineral content of vegetables and fruits has not been updated since 2000, and perhaps even longer, given that the data for 1992 was not able to be definitively confirmed for this…

If organic food actually had a noticeably higher mineral count than nonorganic, I would start eating it. But I don’t see why organic food would actually have more minerals. Organic doesn’t mean healthier it just means that it uses different kinds of pesticides, to my knowledge

I expect organic food to have a substantially lower mineral count. Organic farming uses a lot more tillage than conventional farming does.

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#138
post #24

These are normalized mass rates, ie grams per gram of plant mass. However, the mass yield per acre of cabbage has radically increased over that time period. Is it possible that a cabbage plant is capable of absorbing an absolute amount of minerals, and this is simply being diluted by ever-larger cabbages?

The explanation I've heard is that the total mineral content is about the same, but plants are producing more carbohydrates now due to an increase in atmospheric CO2, diluting the minerals. Consequently, if humans eat according the amount of minerals in the food, the increase in carbohydrates could also explain the increase in obesity.

[deleted]

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#139
post #55

Something that has puzzled me recently: how is anyone supposed to get the daily recommended amount of potassium? If you look at foods like bananas that are supposed to be good sources of it, you still need to eat something like eleven bananas a day to get enough (according to US recommended daily intakes, anyway). At least with the minerals mentioned in this posting, you can fall back on supplements if you need to...…

Through something like Soylent maybe? That is supposed to contain the recommended daily intake of everything.

I'm not seriously suggesting we all move to 100% cardboard-tasting goo, but if you are worried about one or more of your daily intakes, this could be an easy way for some people to get a good dose every now and then (for example for lunch on weekends, I notice that I'm often in the middle of something fun and will neglect to have lunch).

Re: Estimates that mineral levels in vegetables have dropped by up to 90% since 1914

#140
post #55

Something that has puzzled me recently: how is anyone supposed to get the daily recommended amount of potassium? If you look at foods like bananas that are supposed to be good sources of it, you still need to eat something like eleven bananas a day to get enough (according to US recommended daily intakes, anyway). At least with the minerals mentioned in this posting, you can fall back on supplements if you need to...…

You can buy potassium citrate in bulk and measure out your own dose.
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