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Facebook removed a fact-check on anti-abortion video after Ted Cruz complained

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Re: Facebook removed a fact-check on anti-abortion video after Ted Cruz complained

#61
post #12
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Going" downhill? https://www.vox.com/2015/12/1/9827886/abortion-clinic-attack... "Since 1977 there have been eight murders, 17 attempted murders, 42 bombings, and 186 arsons targeted at abortion clinics and providers across the United States. In some cases, a small group of clinics have been targeted multiple times."

Your inflammatory pseudo-counter-argument doesn't change the fact that abortion in cases of non-life-threatening births remains morally problematic. The personhood debate is nontrivial and unless, like e.g., Peter Singer, you're willing to (excuse the pun) throw the baby out with the bathwater, justification for mid-to-late-term abortions is quite difficult and rife with edge cases.

> Your inflammatory pseudo-counter-argument doesn't change the fact that abortion in cases of non-life-threatening births remains morally problematic.

Says the person who has the need to argue about what women can and can't do with their bodies while not having a uterus himself.

Re: Facebook removed a fact-check on anti-abortion video after Ted Cruz complained

#62
Part of the issue with fact checkers is how charitably they are interpreting the words. For example:

Weather Reporter: The sun will rise at 6 AM Tomorrow

Fact Checker: False. The language talking about sun rise is implying that the sun rotates around the earth, and that has been known to astronomers to be false for centuries.

In her video, Lila Rose is saying that abortion as defined as intentionally killing the fetus is not medically necessary.

From the captions on the video: "Now, you could perhaps do an early delivery if she's experiencing or she has a very severe condition that you need to deliver that baby early, but in that situation you don't go in with a needle or forceps to destroy that baby before birth. You give that baby a fighting chance, and that is not an abortion."

She is saying that the baby may die as a consequence of early delivery, but the goal is early delivery, not the destruction of the baby.

Fact check says "Certain medical conditions such as placenta previa and HELLP syndrome can make abortion a necessary medical procedure in order to prevent the mother's death."

My guess that Lila's response would be that that it is the early delivery that is saving the mother's life, not the abortion. The mother's life would still be saved if the baby survives through appropriate medical care.

I don't know if Lila is Catholic, but a lot of her reasoning seems to fall under the "Principle of Double Effect."

http://sites.saintmarys.edu/~incandel/doubleeffect.html

"Classical formulations of the principle of double effect require that four conditions be met if the action in question is to be morally permissible: first, that the action contemplated be in itself either morally good or morally indifferent; second, that the bad result not be directly intended; third, that the good result not be a direct causal result of the bad result; and fourth, that the good result be "proportionate to" the bad result. Supporters of the principle argue that, in situations of "double effect" where all these conditions are met, the action under consideration is morally permissible despite the bad result."

The argument is that doing a delivery with intention to save the mother's life is good, even if it has the consequence that the fetus dies, since the death of the fetus was not the intention, and thus would not be called an abortion, since the fetal death was a secondary effect and not the primary intended effect.

The issue with the fact check is that the fact-checkers were so eager to label something they disagreed with as false, that they did not appreciate the nuance.

Re: Facebook removed a fact-check on anti-abortion video after Ted Cruz complained

#63
post #22
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It had nothing to do with politics. Surely you can see that this is impossible. There is no component of a video like this which has "nothing to do with politics."

Objective truth does exist. That abortion is medically necessary in certain cases, including before 24 weeks, is an objective truth. Those wishing for alternatives sometimes will claim that the technology for resolving cases without abortion could exist if we researched it might have a point, but it remains theoretical and therefore, given today's technology, abortion is sometimes medically required. The rest of it m…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook removed a fact-check on anti-abortion video after Ted Cruz complained

#64
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not. Please re-read my post. I said that "the fact check itself" is not political. I did not defend the political bias of the video itself. You would also do well to actually read the article, especially the screenshot of the fact-check. You'll notice that the fact-check, per my post, simply addresses the facts of the issue and does not make a single political statement. Edit: You also modified my statement…

The thing is FB is not fact checking leftist videos the same way they were doing with the right. Untrue facts about guns for example are never pointed out. Like almost every guns are semi-automatic. Including revolvers and handguns. Making banning semi-automatic weapons in profit of handguns a non-sense.

Most (many?) leftists don't support banning guns by the way. At the very least it's widely debated on the left. The term you're looking for is "liberal" or Democrat.

Re: Facebook removed a fact-check on anti-abortion video after Ted Cruz complained

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, that is terrible, but abortion clinics commit millions of murders each year according to pro-lifers, so your comment falls on deaf ears.

They forget all the manslaughter by mothers who miscarry, plus all the fratricide when one twin absorbs another. It's a god damn slaughter in America's uteruses!

OMG, like literally no ethicist has ever thought of these things. Thank goodness for anonymous hacker news users for thinking the really deep thoughts!

Re: Facebook removed a fact-check on anti-abortion video after Ted Cruz complained

#66

I am not from US so can someone explain why the antiabortion thing seem rise in this last year? Is there some elections and some party is trying to gain votes or some social media trend? My question is about the timing(why now?) and not on "who is the good/bad guy" here.

It's not just now? Anti-abortion has been a huge part of the Republican platform for a very long time, maybe at least the 60's? At least since Roe v Wade (1973). The reason is that there's a large swath of voters who only seem to care about abortion abolition, and will vote for anyone who pushes it, no matter what.

I mean it is a popular subject here on HN and I seen some articles on BBC this year, as I said I am not from US and this "anti-abortion laws" remind me of the communist regime here in Romania, so I was a bit shocked to see this topic debates in US (it was not visible for US outside) .

Re: Facebook removed a fact-check on anti-abortion video after Ted Cruz complained

#67
post #43

This video is absurd. The headline on the video "Abortion is never medically necessary", but then goes on to state that "removal of an ectopic pregnancy" doesn't count because it's not an abortion. Umm, OK. She's really just defined all of the "medically necessary abortions" as not abortions.

This comment has it correct; she defines abortion in a specific way (a common practice in documents / research papers / etc), and then makes a claim using this specific definition. The definition is left out of the headline, understandably and predictably, leaving a flamewar about a straw man.

This does not sound like a good-faith definition of terms. It's a no-true-scottsman instead, which is not a common practice, or at least not a reputable one.

Re: Facebook removed a fact-check on anti-abortion video after Ted Cruz complained

#68
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you want a social network where you can say whatever you want without interference go use gab or 4chan. it's facebook's choice whether or not they want to do this. edit: "whatever you want" supposed to be figure of speech, seemingly this must be pointed out.

You mean 8chan? I don't know about gab but you can not say whatever you want on 4chan...

8chan was still down since Cloudfare cancelled it last I checked. “Big tech”s reach extends beyond the mega platforms onto smaller independent sites too.

Few sites are totally unmoderated either, I doubt gab is totally unmoderated either. They all take down spam, illegal stuff, and harassing/abusive people afaik. If not I dont see how their communities would last very long.

Re: Facebook removed a fact-check on anti-abortion video after Ted Cruz complained

#69

I am not from US so can someone explain why the antiabortion thing seem rise in this last year? Is there some elections and some party is trying to gain votes or some social media trend? My question is about the timing(why now?) and not on "who is the good/bad guy" here.

> I am not from US so can someone explain why the antiabortion thing seem rise in this last year?

There has been a shift in the Supreme Court with the appointments under Trump, particularly the replacement of Justice Kennedy, widely regarded as having been the “swing” vote on the issue, which makes it widely perceived to be more likely that existing precedent sharply limiting permissible government restrictions on abortion would be struck down, should a case involving the issue reach the Supreme Court.

Consequently, many state legislatures that are dominated by the faction opposed to abortion are implementing sharp restrictions on abortion in state law in an effort to get sued over them, get the case to the Supreme Court, and have the existing abortion rights regime abolished.

There's some more, but that's the single biggest factor.

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