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Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

nytimes.com

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Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#131

Post by trianglem »

partialrecall wrote: post #3

It's not at all clear to me why we allow American football and universities to have such a perverse relationship, when it's plain to see that football itself has nothing to do with education, except insofar as it's an activity that many students enjoy (but there is no shortage of other non-academic activities that many students share, such as baseball...) And in cases like this, where students are leaving the game ea…

This is a very uninformed, topical response. Football on college basically pays for all other sport on campus. Athletics are an extremely important part of a well rounded education (today more that ever!). A lot of activities and school pride are based on the sports team so the benefits there are enourmous if not tangible or quantifiable immediately.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#132

Post by watwut »

_match wrote: post #71

The prejudice and ignorance in these comments are astounding, so I'll try address the major themes. I'm defensive because, though I rarely watch the games, I enjoy listening to postgame interviews with the Alabama coach, Nick Saban. He's found unprecedented success in a brutally competitive field by following a textbook stoic philosophy people in the south call "The Process", by encouraging relentless pursuit of perf…

Sounds like your response to "students are not enjoying it" is just explaining why they are not enjoying it. They want to be elsewhere and do something else.

It is not disrespectful to not attend sport event you are not interested in, no matter how hard players trained.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#133

Post by hobofan »

dghughes wrote: post #120
partialrecall wrote: post #3

It's not at all clear to me why we allow American football and universities to have such a perverse relationship, when it's plain to see that football itself has nothing to do with education, except insofar as it's an activity that many students enjoy (but there is no shortage of other non-academic activities that many students share, such as baseball...) And in cases like this, where students are leaving the game ea…

> It's not at all clear to me why we allow American football and universities to have such a perverse relationship, when it's plain to see that football itself has nothing to do with education, People are arguing in the comments about the money, history and prestige US football brings to colleges in the US. I have to wonder in other parts of the world does soccer have such sway over universities? Are there universiti…

> I have to wonder in other parts of the world does soccer have such sway over universities? Are there universities that have soccer programs that bring in large sums of money for the university?

Here in Germany I am not aware of any substantial sports teams by universities. Universities here also generally don't offer any scholarships for athletes. AFAIK, the situation in the rest of Europe is similar. The sports programs that are offered at universities here are very casual and comparable to a cheaper gym membership in purpose.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#134

Post by the_watcher »

partialrecall wrote: post #3

It's not at all clear to me why we allow American football and universities to have such a perverse relationship, when it's plain to see that football itself has nothing to do with education, except insofar as it's an activity that many students enjoy (but there is no shortage of other non-academic activities that many students share, such as baseball...) And in cases like this, where students are leaving the game ea…

> And in cases like this, where students are leaving the game early, it's perhaps not an activity that students enjoy after all.

This is completely misunderstanding what's happening. They're leaving early because the game is already decided. When the score is 62-10 in the 4th quarter, you're no longer watching a competition.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#135

Post by hnburnsy »

Maybe the headline changed but the app is not penalizing students for leaving early but possibly rewarding them for staying. Crazy how headlines drive a narrative that often times does not match the reported facts.

From an AP article on this...

"if they stay in the stands at a home game at Bryant-Denny Stadium through the fourth quarter, students who have the app could be rewarded with highly coveted postseason tickets to events like the SEC Championship Game or the College Football Playoffs"

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#136

Post by the_watcher »

partialrecall wrote: post #3

It's not at all clear to me why we allow American football and universities to have such a perverse relationship, when it's plain to see that football itself has nothing to do with education, except insofar as it's an activity that many students enjoy (but there is no shortage of other non-academic activities that many students share, such as baseball...) And in cases like this, where students are leaving the game ea…

> Why can't the American football industry run itself more like the American baseball industry? Instead of leeching off universities, particularly public universities, they could be operating minor leagues independent of any educational system.

College baseball exists, and some of the best teams in the country are from public universities. It's also generally considered a revenue sport (although admittedly not on the level of football).

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#137

Post by yifanl »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #98
6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We let students major in theater, but not in football. There's a big difference.

Yet football players tend to make more money and find jobs around the sport more often than theater students do in and around the theater.

A quick search states about 2% of college football players manage to go pro.

I'm not familiar, but I imagine it's a bit of a cliff for the other 98%? There don't seem to be too many transferable skills from college football if you don't make a living from football.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#138

Post by moate »

aripickar wrote: post #103
rhinoceraptor wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> probably the most underpaid state employee What about the athletes themselves who are taking years off their lives, while getting absolutely no compensation?

If we're solely talking about underpaid, then the absolute peak value of a college football player at the top of the game is probably under 10 million. IMO, the value of Saban is probably closer to 60 or 70 million[0], so he is more underpaid. Of course, the situation for players is a much more egregious underpayment. [0] Really hard to quantify, but comparing the revenue effects and higher order revenue generation o…

Depends on how you're measuring. Saban is making about 8mil (lazy math) and you think he's worth 70. Let's go crazy, and say he's actually even more valuable, and worth 80 million.

So he's making about 1/10th what he should, or 10% of his value.

Best student athlete is worth 8 million. They make $0. They're making 0% of their total value back.

The cost of the education is meaningless. It's all arbitrary and basically monopoly money costs. Oh, you're getting a full ride to a school that would normally charge you $50K? That's great, but it's not of real value in the same way that actual cash is.

This is why I'm a big fan of California's move to allow students to take endorsements.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#140

Post by slg »

dragonwriter wrote: post #90
slg wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's plain to see that football itself has nothing to do with education, except insofar as it's an activity that many students enjoy Sports are part of a traditional old-school liberal arts education. That is why the Ivy League schools have some of the largest athletic departments in the country even though they don't generate revenue anywhere close to schools like Alabama or Ohio State. It is really no different th…

> Sports are part of a traditional old-school liberal arts education. A traditional, old-school liberal arts education consists of exactly the seven liberal arts, divided into the trivium ([Latin] grammar, logic, and rhetoric) followed by the quadrivium (arithmetic, geometry, theory of music, and astronomy.) The slightly less old-school version takes the old trivium deemphasizes formal logic, and adds Greek, history,…

I should have been more specific. I was not referring to a European or Renaissance idea of Liberal Arts, but more the 19th century US version that was used as the basis for a large number of American universities especially in the Northeast. Athletics and fitness played a central part in the educational experience there. Once again, that is why Ivy League schools generally have athletics departments that rank among the largest in the nation in terms of number of participants.
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