Was about time !
California bans private prisons
551–560 of 646 posts
Re: California bans private prisons
#552Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well done California. Hopefully this is a step towards abolishing the prison system.
I've entertained the idea of abolishing prisons in my head, but I can't imagine what we would do as an alternative. Suggestions?
I’ve heard ideas that prisons could be voluntary in a completely free society. First, a lot of people who have gone to prison for victimless crimes (using and/or selling drugs for instance) would no longer go to prison. Second, people who have committed violent crimes may choose to go to prison to “work off their debt” and show willingness to atone for their crimes. One could imagine that many employers, businesses and people generally would ostracize a person that would not be willing to go to prison, but on the other hand would be more willing to again accept that individual if he did go to prison.
Re: California bans private prisons
#553Earlier quoted context omitted.
The focus of a healthy prison system should be to rehabilitate The operative word you used is should . You hold the view that the purpose of justice is rehabilitation, which is one theory of justice. Other popular views are deterrence and retribution. From what I've observed about the United States, preferences for these competing theories of justice tend to fall along well-trodden political lines. That's why it can…
The only indisputable effect of imprisonment is that it prevents preying upon the general public for the duration. Since criminal behavior markedly decreases with age, there is a rational argument to be made that persons who prey on others should be removed from society until such time as they are old enough to knock it off.
Unless prison radializes them and conditions them to integrate even less with society. Then it would have the opposite effect you desire, even if statistics painted the picture you want to see.
Re: California bans private prisons
#554Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well done California. Hopefully this is a step towards abolishing the prison system.
I've entertained the idea of abolishing prisons in my head, but I can't imagine what we would do as an alternative. Suggestions?
A lot of the times we would just do nothing. Marijuana possession doesn't need punishment for example.
Otherwise there are a tonne of options from before prison became the norm. Community service, restitution, fines, public shaming, exile, corporal punishment, capital punishment. Some more acceptable today than others.
Re: California bans private prisons
#555Earlier quoted context omitted.
* caveat: Assuming no power disparty between buyers and sellers. If you need something more than the seller needs your money they're free to adjust the price up no matter how many of them there are. For instance, a hurricane comes in to town. All of a sudden, every gas station is charging $50/bottle for water and $10/gal for gas, even though the market is no more or less competitive than the day before when they char…
the provider is still not free to wait out the buyer in a competitive market because another provider can swoop in and make the deal. in you price gouging example prices are high because demand is so much higher than supply, but goods still change hands. again, this is all in theory
Sure I get the theory and I actually buy into it. However I’ve been on this earth long enough to know that theory doesn’t match reality a lot of the time and that’s when then the government should step in and right the scales.
Re: California bans private prisons
#556I find it fascinating that private prisons draw such ire while the prison guard union draws so little, when the prison guard union has all the exact same incentives and is drastically more powerful. California would have had legal marijuana a decade sooner except for lobbing by the union, they're a major force for mandatory minimum sentences and tougher sentencing in general. This seems like a trivial easy-PR win for…
> when the prison guard union has all the exact same incentives and is drastically more powerful. Could you please provide me some examples? I figure if California's prisons were 200% of capacity, there's no shortage of work for the prison guards anyway.
I figure more people coming in also means more overtime benefits, eventually translates to better pension benefits too. Given most pensions are based on the compensations and benefits of the last years of service rendered.
Then of course there could be plenty of hidden stuff like more prison crowds means some one selling food(I hear animals eat better food than inmates) to the prison likely makes more money, and hence better bribes/commissions in the chain of people involved.
Eventually it comes down to profit per person. And they'd like to make it up on scale.
Re: California bans private prisons
#557Good riddance. The whole premise of private, for-profit, prisons has always seemed deeply troubling to me. The focus of a healthy prison system should be to rehabilitate people and help them turn their lives around so that they contribute positively to society. That can take years of hard work by the individual, and require assistance from professionals (therapists, teachers, ...). A for-profit company by definition…
The purpose of imprisonment is to punish criminals by depriving them of their liberty. As a side-effect, society benefits because a criminal has been forcibly removed from visiting further misery on law-abiding people. Imprisonment is and should be a deterrent punishment - it is not a support group. One can both be in favor of abolishing for-profit prisons and also in favor of severe deterrent sentences for law-break…
> The purpose of imprisonment is to punish criminals by depriving them of their liberty.
This is an opinion, not a fact. And you don't even back up your opinion with any data to support it.
Re: California bans private prisons
#558Earlier quoted context omitted.
They totally could but for some reason no state does... Instead, I only see senators, representatives, and potential presidential candidates trying to force it upon the entire country. We are the united states, let individual states start the process and let it bubble up to the federal level once enough states enable it just like we are doing with marijuana laws. IMO, the federal government has been getting too large…
> They totally could but for some reason no state does No state alone can, because it would have (or at least would fear) a large influx of people coming for the free healthcare. If enough states set up their own systems and make them interoperable, it might have some legs. I hear rumblings of this from time to time, What I meant was a federally-mandated, state-implemented system. Federal law can define a minimum lev…
That is in fact how Canada handles it. The Canada health act defines minimum standard of care and the provinces each implement a single payer system.
Re: California bans private prisons
#559Earlier quoted context omitted.
I grew up in Canada, have family there I visit regularly and live in America. The tax rate in California top marginal is higher than Ontario and yet one includes healthcare. You don’t think you can spent 50% of your marginal income on taxes in California? I think with the state taxes no longer deductible it’s closer to 55%. I’ve only ever had great interactions with OHIP.
You couldn't pay me to step foot in California.
Trust me with the amount I make they could.