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Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

politico.com

291–300 of 346 posts

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#291
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every country spies on everyone else, including allies. But the extent and depth of Israeli spying in the U.S. is considered to be particularly extreme for allies. Importantly, there are rarely any repercussions, and Israel never cops to it, which is sort of a slap in the face. When it was discovered that the U.S. was tapping Angela Merkel's cellphone there was public outrage in Germany, shock in the international co…

Regardless of the attempt here at painting a country's foreign policy as partisan, any given country favors one U.S. party over the other. Right now, China probably favors a Democrat led government, so does Iran. The U.S. probably favors one Israeli party over the other. Your entire issue with this is likely because you perceive Israeli spying to oppose your political party. On those lines, would you classify Chinese…

Because you managed to get under my skin, I'll give you some freebies:

2004: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-sep-03-na-spypr...

2008: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-spy-who...

Notice the thread: Israel is uniquely aggressive, especially as an ally.

This article is full of innuendo and conjecture (they say this up front), but provides insight into the complex web of business and intelligence relationships that make it easy for Israel to accomplish electronic surveillance in the U.S.: https://www.wired.com/2012/04/shady-companies-nsa/

A specific case of spying intended to undermine U.S. policymaking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Franklin_espionage_sc...

And the same thing 10 years later, except now patently partisan: https://theintercept.com/2015/03/25/netanyahus-spying-denial...

Another thread: Allies typically spy on each other to understand their motivations and to predict their next moves. But Israel is increasingly doing it to enable them to directly interfere in domestic American politics. Some might excuse it as Israel being justifiably paranoid about Iran; others won't excuse it. But you can't deny that it stands apart.

The reported examples are just the tip of the iceberg. As people readily report, it's widely known/believed that the above is just the tip of the iceberg. Sometimes this results in misleading and false accusations, but this is a consequence of consistent, significant, long-term espionage activity, as well as the fact that their intelligence activities run the gambit of methodologies (legal and illegal), much of which doesn't fit the Hollywood definition of espionage.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#292
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are looking around your personal space and thinking “gee no borders would work out great” then you’re living in the very definition of bourgeoisie privilege.

That doesn't make any sense.

To you.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before you accuse Israel of discrimination, you should consider that 20% of Israelis are Arabs (compare that to 12% of Americans being black) and that Arabs had legal equality in Israel decades before blacks did in America. The relationship between Israel and its Arab minority is much more nuanced than you think. I’d call it passive aggressive, going both ways.

> 20% of Israelis are Arabs Does that include the Palestinians, do the Israeli government counts them as people?

They are not Israeli citizens, and therefore not counted under the Israeli populace.

The 20% I referred to are Israeli-Arabs.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that radical Islam would embrace USA’s existence without its support of Israel is delusional. USA stands against everything they believe in. It just reeks of appeasement.

> USA stands against everything they believe in. Is this a euphemism for saying "Many of these people have relatives killed by America or one of its puppet governments"?

Assuming you’re genuinely curious to know and not just echoing empty rhetoric, you may want to read this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article...

The language Islamic radicals use to refer to the Westerns is often “crusaders”. It’s a conflict rooted in religion, not practicalities or modern time hostilities.

But I suggest you read the article, it’d be better for explaining the reality than a thousand argumentative HN posts.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Former CIA and Mossad workers working in the highly (and badly) regulated private sector is not "Israel espionage" on the US government. Edit: Why the down vote?

Private companies and Israel defense and intelligence agencies have deep ties, and the article shows. For instance: > Mossad Director Yossi Cohen told the paper that the Mossad’s partnership with civilian companies in Israel is “excellent” and that the agency will continue to strengthen those ties.

People have jobs, learn, keep ties, and move on to do what they know elsewhere.

Talking about private sector, private contractor doing shaded activities for US clients is not the same as "Israel espionage". Israel is a country, does the article suggest evidence that Israel (or someone on its behalf) have done any espionage in US?

Qouting your comment from another thread: "The article is presenting a claim [you are, Israel espionage is not claimed in the article] which needs to be backed by sound evidence, like research papers [or any other evidence]. That's where the burden of proof lies, not on those who reject the claim on face value."

Https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20886710

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Former CIA and Mossad workers working in the highly (and badly) regulated private sector is not "Israel espionage" on the US government. Edit: Why the down vote?

Intelligence agencies should not be permitted to launder their accountability and reputation through private contractors. By that I mean, when they inevitably do it you should call it what it is, not play along with their convenient fiction.

Do you have any reason to believe that intelligence agencies are involved in the cases mentioned? Why would they? Please cite.

Former workers are sometimes just that.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#298
post #174

It's not like the Israelis haven't done this before and not paid any consequences for it. 2000: https://www.wrmea.org/000-june/despite-coverup-israel-caught... 2015 caught greasing politicians: https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-spy-net-on-israel-snares-co... 2011: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/08/us/08spy.html 2015: https://theintercept.com/2015/03/25/netanyahus-spying-denial... 2014: https://www.newsweek.com/israel…

Without support from the USA, it would not be possible for Israel to defend itself. Much of their spying on the USA is not to harm the USA, but to ensure the USA is still on their side. I don't think they want to hurt the USA, but I do think they would support an opponent of a politician that had been "heard" expressing a lack of interest in financial and military support for Israel.

Nonetheless that’s exactly what we blame Russia for. Obviously many countries actually do try to monitor and influence. But of course there is a difference between friendly-fire and enemy’s fire.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#299
post #174

It's not like the Israelis haven't done this before and not paid any consequences for it. 2000: https://www.wrmea.org/000-june/despite-coverup-israel-caught... 2015 caught greasing politicians: https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-spy-net-on-israel-snares-co... 2011: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/08/us/08spy.html 2015: https://theintercept.com/2015/03/25/netanyahus-spying-denial... 2014: https://www.newsweek.com/israel…

Without support from the USA, it would not be possible for Israel to defend itself. Much of their spying on the USA is not to harm the USA, but to ensure the USA is still on their side. I don't think they want to hurt the USA, but I do think they would support an opponent of a politician that had been "heard" expressing a lack of interest in financial and military support for Israel.

Israel did worst than just spying on the US government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident. Now the official investigation concluded that this was a result of an unfortunate mistake, but survivors and others maintain that the ship was deliberately targeted.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intelligence agencies should not be permitted to launder their accountability and reputation through private contractors. By that I mean, when they inevitably do it you should call it what it is, not play along with their convenient fiction.

Do you have any reason to believe that intelligence agencies are involved in the cases mentioned? Why would they? Please cite. Former workers are sometimes just that.

Can you provide me with any reason to believe intelligence agencies don't use contractors, or don't use contractors who used to work for the agency in question? I doubt it.
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