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The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

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Re: The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

#21

Post by galangalalgol »

nunb wrote: post #17
galangalalgol wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sr-71 gets all the glory but go look at some of the aircraft that lost competitions. The convair kingfish that lost to the 71 was decades ahead. It lost for a number of reasons, some valid, some not. The f-22 competitor was super interesting as well.

YF-23 actually looked futuristic, the F-22 looks like a mild modernization of the F-15/18

The kingfish looked like something more modern than an f-117. The f-16xl that lost to the f-15e looked like a modern European design. The boeing jsf was... Ugly, but the grumman one was cool looking. Its kind of a trend, the losers are so much cooler.

Re: The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

#22

Post by blackflame7000 »

syntaxing wrote: post #5

I know it's toxic but from a technical aspect, that is really cool. I remember reading that the Apache Helicopter (I think?) can redirect it's exhaust internally temporarily to become invisible to heat seekers. Some of these technologies are super fun to read about.

It depends. If its regular Cesium 133 then it's harmless compared to Cesium 137.

Re: The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

#23

Post by blackflame7000 »

amluto wrote: post #16
treggle wrote: post #11

Of course, because nothing matters more than getting the advantage. Same line of thinking that results in depleted uranium tank shells.

Cesium (in the +1 state) appears to be barely toxic at all. Wikipedia puts its LD50 around that of sodium. Cesium metal is extraordinarily dangerous, but it’s so reactive that none of it will survive long enough to get anywhere near the ground.

Yea it's Cesium 137 that everyone worries about and it comes from splitting uranium.

Re: The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

#24

Post by blackflame7000 »

aidenn0 wrote: post #15
galangalalgol wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sr-71 gets all the glory but go look at some of the aircraft that lost competitions. The convair kingfish that lost to the 71 was decades ahead. It lost for a number of reasons, some valid, some not. The f-22 competitor was super interesting as well.

Yeah, the YF-23 wins a lot of cool points on looks alone[1], and it was faster and stealthier than the F-22. Taking the -22 was probably the right choice given that it was lower risk and absurdly better than anything it's likely to encounter in its operational life. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_YF-23#/media/File:YF-...

It seems the Airforce likes their bombers from Northrop, their fighters from Lockheed, and unmanned vehicles from Boeing.

Re: The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

#25

Post by blackflame7000 »

galangalalgol wrote: post #21
nunb wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YF-23 actually looked futuristic, the F-22 looks like a mild modernization of the F-15/18

The kingfish looked like something more modern than an f-117. The f-16xl that lost to the f-15e looked like a modern European design. The boeing jsf was... Ugly, but the grumman one was cool looking. Its kind of a trend, the losers are so much cooler.

You can definitely see the B2 exhaust design in the Y23. It seems the Northrop gets the bombers and Lockheed gets the fighters. Makes sense logistically.

Re: The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

#26

Post by austinheap »

coolspot wrote: post #13
syntaxing wrote: post #5

I know it's toxic but from a technical aspect, that is really cool. I remember reading that the Apache Helicopter (I think?) can redirect it's exhaust internally temporarily to become invisible to heat seekers. Some of these technologies are super fun to read about.

Most military helicopters having some ways of masking IR signature: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S100093611...

1960s designs cannot be masked against modern FLIR arrays so old rotorcraft still in service are just retrofitted to discourage detection.

Re: The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

#27

Post by justin66 »

galangalalgol wrote: post #8
skunkworker wrote: post #6

If you haven't read it, Skunk Works: A Personal Memoir of My Years at Lockheed by Ben Rich is a pretty fun read into the U2, A-12 Oxcart, SR-71, Sea Shadow and other craft. And has a lot of good stories from pilots. But the ultimate SR-71 book would be Sled Driver: Flying the World's Fastest Jet.

The sr-71 gets all the glory but go look at some of the aircraft that lost competitions. The convair kingfish that lost to the 71 was decades ahead. It lost for a number of reasons, some valid, some not. The f-22 competitor was super interesting as well.

> The convair kingfish that lost to the 71 was decades ahead.

It was never built, let alone flown.

Re: The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

#28

Post by selectodude »

galangalalgol wrote: post #8
skunkworker wrote: post #6

If you haven't read it, Skunk Works: A Personal Memoir of My Years at Lockheed by Ben Rich is a pretty fun read into the U2, A-12 Oxcart, SR-71, Sea Shadow and other craft. And has a lot of good stories from pilots. But the ultimate SR-71 book would be Sled Driver: Flying the World's Fastest Jet.

The sr-71 gets all the glory but go look at some of the aircraft that lost competitions. The convair kingfish that lost to the 71 was decades ahead. It lost for a number of reasons, some valid, some not. The f-22 competitor was super interesting as well.

The Convair Kingfish never actually existed and the A12 flew higher, farther, cost far less and Convair couldn’t put an aircraft in the air on time or on budget to save their lives.

Re: The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

#29

Post by VonGuard »

tlb wrote: post #7

> It’s also not clear from the available records how much [cesium] was necessary per gallon of [jet fuel] Come on, you lazy reporter! Go find a jet engine and some cesium and a radar reflectometer and make a graph of reflectance vs. cesium content. Presumably, some engineer at Lockheed in the late 50s got exactly that assignment, with a budget. There would be a notebook with a table of numbers and a hand-drawn graph.…

I have visions of exploding journalists....

For Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m55kgyApYrY

Re: The SR-71's predecessor used cesium-laced fuel to create radar-absorbing exhaust

#30

Post by jhayward »

treggle wrote: post #11

Of course, because nothing matters more than getting the advantage. Same line of thinking that results in depleted uranium tank shells.

I have some bad news. We used to put tetraethyl lead in automobile fuel and then burn it in cities next to homes and schools.
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