Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

California bans private prisons

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 646 posts

Re: California bans private prisons

#211

Post by tyrust »

jvm wrote: post #200
coryrc wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public sector isn't any better. The Price of Prison Guard Unions https://capitalresearch.org/article/the-price-of-prison-guar... PORAC's contribution to California's prison crisis http://www.cjcj.org/news/5423

Classic to see the correct take get downvoted. If anyone's interested in actually learning about the causes of mass incarceration, I'd strongly recommend John Pfaff's _Locked In_: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01L6SLKK8/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?... In short: a) It's not the war on drugs. b) It's not private prisons. c) It's not sentencing laws. You could get rid of all of those and America would still lead the "free" worl…

Then what is it?

Re: California bans private prisons

#212

Post by aqme28 »

coryrc wrote: post #175
arcticbull wrote: post #27

I'm so happy about this. Private prisons are the scum of the earth. They're totally antithetical to a free society that values human life. They often lobby for minimum occupancy levels in law (effectively requiring by law a certain percentage of citizens to be marked as criminals). Any profit they skim off the top is money that should be spent rehabilitating criminals and making them functional members of society. Ne…

The public sector isn't any better. The Price of Prison Guard Unions https://capitalresearch.org/article/the-price-of-prison-guar... PORAC's contribution to California's prison crisis http://www.cjcj.org/news/5423

How is the prison guard union and a lobby group specifically a problem of the public sector?

For all of its faults, I can't agree with you that the public sector is just as bad as the private sector.

Re: California bans private prisons

#214

Post by gnarmis »

chroma wrote: post #109

I think private prisons could work if: - Convicts could choose whether to be sent to a public or private prison. - Private prisons had financial incentives for post-incarceration behavior. Eg: If their prisoner recidivism rate after 3 years was 10% lower than the average public prison, they would get a 20% bonus. Those changes would create enough competition and align incentives such that we could see some real innov…

On the second point, I think folks are rightly dubious about the effectiveness of incentives broadly[1]. There's also some hilarious historical examples of incentives backfiring or having unwanted side-effects (like the Cobra Effect [2].)

More broadly, I don't think it's that easy to think that private prisons can even work well as a solution, regardless of whether they should be allowed to exist as a matter of public policy and ethics. Consider one summative look at this issue provided in this evaluation[3] -- it's dubious whether they're even cost effective, one of the strongest pro-private-prison arguments there has been in public debate, and how there's much better alternatives than the kind of perverse incentives bundled with private prisons, like re-evaluating whether parolees should be allowed in public housing, and providing more transition housing so when sentences are complete, inmates aren't forced to spend even more time in prison because they don't have an address to go to.

[1] https://hbr.org/2009/03/when-economic-incentives-backfire [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect [3] https://publicpolicy.wharton.upenn.edu/live/news/2304-privat...

Re: California bans private prisons

#215

Post by arcticbull »

imsofuture wrote: post #187

[flagged]

Capitalism is great for some things, and awful for others. Capitalism works best when there's no power differential between customers and service providers because the goal is to maximize profit. If my choice is to pay for cancer treatment or die, you can (and do) charge me literally whatever you want in a capitalist system. If I get no choice in which prison I go to, well, I get bilked.

Basically anywhere you have no choice should be socialized or two-tier: Medicine, Prison, Army, Education.

On the other hand, nobody's forcing me to buy phones.

Re: California bans private prisons

#219

Post by ekianjo »

arcticbull wrote: post #215
imsofuture wrote: post #187

[flagged]

Capitalism is great for some things, and awful for others. Capitalism works best when there's no power differential between customers and service providers because the goal is to maximize profit. If my choice is to pay for cancer treatment or die, you can (and do) charge me literally whatever you want in a capitalist system. If I get no choice in which prison I go to, well, I get bilked. Basically anywhere you have n…

> If my choice is to pay for cancer treatment or die, you can (and do) charge me literally whatever you want in a capitalist system.

Erm, no. Because if people can't pay for it, then your drug get no sales, and you lose your investment. The problem right now is that there are several payers involved and nobody sees the real cost of things. Were you to pay directly for drugs from your own pocket without intermediaries I'd wage all drugs would be way cheaper.

Re: California bans private prisons

#220

Post by dgacmu »

gfodor wrote: post #210
imsofuture wrote: post #187

[flagged]

Capitalism distills incentives. It’s hard to think of a poorer incentive structure than that between prisons and prisoners. For healthcare, there is a mix of incentives, some of which incentivize improved quality and quantity of care. For prisons, I can’t think of a single incentive around capital which could lead to better outcomes for prison life compared to a public structure.

Absolutely. For example, from a societal perspective, reducing recidivism is a huge win. from the perspective of the operator of a private prison, it's lost profit.
Post reply on HN