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Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

politico.com

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Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#211

Post by squarefoot »

chimi wrote: post #174
scottlocklin wrote: post #162

It's not like the Israelis haven't done this before and not paid any consequences for it. 2000: https://www.wrmea.org/000-june/despite-coverup-israel-caught... 2015 caught greasing politicians: https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-spy-net-on-israel-snares-co... 2011: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/08/us/08spy.html 2015: https://theintercept.com/2015/03/25/netanyahus-spying-denial... 2014: https://www.newsweek.com/israel…

Without support from the USA, it would not be possible for Israel to defend itself. Much of their spying on the USA is not to harm the USA, but to ensure the USA is still on their side. I don't think they want to hurt the USA, but I do think they would support an opponent of a politician that had been "heard" expressing a lack of interest in financial and military support for Israel.

"I don't think they want to hurt the USA, but I do think they would support an opponent of a politician that had been "heard" expressing a lack of interest in financial and military support for Israel."

Probably this. And they likely act with their friendly party in the know. "Feel free to keep an eye on your wife using my car when I'm away. But if she or anyone else catches you, I won't know who you are and will report a stolen car".

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#212

Post by ars »

age_bronze wrote: post #196
chimi wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without support from the USA, it would not be possible for Israel to defend itself. Much of their spying on the USA is not to harm the USA, but to ensure the USA is still on their side. I don't think they want to hurt the USA, but I do think they would support an opponent of a politician that had been "heard" expressing a lack of interest in financial and military support for Israel.

Let me get this straight: Israel risks pissing the U.S by spying on them, which can lead to them cutting ties with Israel, in order to make sure that US does not cut its ties with Israel. Would you risk spying on your girlfriend to make sure she wants to stay your girlfriend? This makes no sense.

The US is not a single person, spying on one doesn't bother the other.

But in general the US doesn't really care if Israel spies on it, and Israel doesn't care when the US does.

All countries spy on each other, and all countries know it. There's a tacit agreement to make some noise when it goes public, but otherwise move on and not care.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#213

Post by nickik »

chimi wrote: post #174
scottlocklin wrote: post #162

It's not like the Israelis haven't done this before and not paid any consequences for it. 2000: https://www.wrmea.org/000-june/despite-coverup-israel-caught... 2015 caught greasing politicians: https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-spy-net-on-israel-snares-co... 2011: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/08/us/08spy.html 2015: https://theintercept.com/2015/03/25/netanyahus-spying-denial... 2014: https://www.newsweek.com/israel…

Without support from the USA, it would not be possible for Israel to defend itself. Much of their spying on the USA is not to harm the USA, but to ensure the USA is still on their side. I don't think they want to hurt the USA, but I do think they would support an opponent of a politician that had been "heard" expressing a lack of interest in financial and military support for Israel.

> Without support from the USA, it would not be possible for Israel to defend itself.

That is simply plain wrong.

Maybe they couldn't defend against the uncountable human rights accusation and other countries putting international pressure on them.

Maybe not under their current polices, ie forced land acquisition, forced demographic change and so on.

> Much of their spying on the USA is not to harm the USA, but to ensure the USA is still on their side.

In many ways that makes it worse.

> I don't think they want to hurt the USA, but I do think they would support an opponent of a politician that had been "heard" expressing a lack of interest in financial and military support for I don't think they want to hurt the USA, but I do think they would support an opponent of a politician that had been "heard" expressing a lack of interest in financial and military support for Israel.

They do that literally every day. This is quite well known and well document. You can actually go and read the stories from the congress-man who opposed Israel and what that actually means in practice.

They also heavily influence things like who is appointed for diplomatic and other positions.

They are currently very much directly influencing the democracy of the US so it will act with their foreign policy goals to the clear determent of actual US strategic interest.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#214

Post by nickik »

buyingarmor wrote: post #4

Israel and the U.S are extremely strong alliance Also the Mossad is working a lot with the secret service in the U.S I believe there is a deeper reason behind those actions that won't be revealed to us (it can also explain the lack of actions of the U.S towards this case)

So? Just because they work together doesn't mean they are not doing it. That's not how spying works.

In fact, its well known with the intelligence community that Israel is by far the greatest intelligence now that Communism doesn't exist anymore.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#215

Post by ghani »

ceejayoz wrote: post #12
2rsf wrote: post #6

> Israel doesn’t conduct espionage operations in the United States, period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard

In fairness, Israel claims they learned a lesson from that incident and implemented the policy you're quoting as a result. edit: Some weird downvotes here. I'm not saying I believe they don't actually spy, but they have made that promise: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/22/israel-condemn... > Since Pollard's conviction, Israel has promised not to spy on the US. Israeli ministers said on Sunday that Israel…

> "In another top-secret document seen by the Guardian, dated 2008, a senior NSA official points out that Israel aggressively spies on the US. "On the one hand, the Israelis are extraordinarily good Sigint partners for us, but on the other, they target us to learn our positions on Middle East problems," the official says. "A NIE [National Intelligence Estimate] ranked them as the third most aggressive intelligence service against the US."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-...

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#216

Post by chubasco »

ur-whale wrote: post #123
kryogen1c wrote: post #8

> The U.S. government concluded within the last two years that Israel was most likely behind > But unlike most other occasions I don't know if im spoiled by Wikipedia, or jaded from age, or wisened by age, or rightfully lost trust in the media, or wrongfully lost trust in the media, but i find myself entirely unwilling to accept to accept claims like this. Citation. Needed. In order to believe this article, i need to…

Do a startup that puts news on the blockchain. Include SHA512 of pictures and video of eyewitnesses of said piece of news.

I actually had a similar idea to discourage certain news outlets from posting inflammatory but misleading or untrue headlines and articles for clicks, and then later changing them to something more factually correct after the damage has been done.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#217

Post by age_bronze »

scottlocklin wrote: post #210
age_bronze wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great comment, if anyone else needed any better confirmation that this scottlocklin dude is some anti-semite, there you have it. Expected nothing less from you.

So... it is antisemitic to notice that the Jericho-2 missile, equipped with nukes is capable of reaching LA? It is, you know! This is a fact. https://fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/missile/jericho-2.htm Also, it is illegal for the US to give foreign aid to non NPT compliant countries. Israel is a non-NPT compliant country. I've been on here for years; under my real name. You just showed up shouting about Israel. Are you a…

This is even better, not only does Israel spy, it also sends trolls to hacker news to make sure you scottlocklin don't reveal their evil plans. I bet u're really afraid the mossad is now after you or something.

You got any more of those gems? How deep does the paranoia go?

Also I'm just yet another Israeli browsing HN, angry of the bulshit and false allegations.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#218

Post by scottlocklin »

age_bronze wrote: post #217
scottlocklin wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... it is antisemitic to notice that the Jericho-2 missile, equipped with nukes is capable of reaching LA? It is, you know! This is a fact. https://fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/missile/jericho-2.htm Also, it is illegal for the US to give foreign aid to non NPT compliant countries. Israel is a non-NPT compliant country. I've been on here for years; under my real name. You just showed up shouting about Israel. Are you a…

This is even better, not only does Israel spy, it also sends trolls to hacker news to make sure you scottlocklin don't reveal their evil plans. I bet u're really afraid the mossad is now after you or something. You got any more of those gems? How deep does the paranoia go? Also I'm just yet another Israeli browsing HN, angry of the bulshit and false allegations.

The Hasabra is real, dude. Feel free to attempt to refute it; it is well documented that knuckleheads are paid to show up on forums and do exactly what you're doing. So far you've called me a blood libeler and an antisemite without engaging with anything I've raised.

Israel definitely spies on the US; you can literally find hundreds of examples on google: I only listed 10. If you're Israeli; tell your politicians to cut it out. I actually agree with your assertions that this is likely to eventually cause problems for Israel with the US, and that they should stop. They should also consider getting rid of nukes with delivery vehicles capable of hitting LA.

I mean if I really wanted to get out the heavy artillery I'd mention the Lavon affair and the attack on the USS Liberty. By now, those are mostly water under the bridge, but they sure weren't the actions of an ally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#219

Post by partialrecall »

age_bronze wrote: post #191
partialrecall wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, that's terribly naive (or, you think we're terribly naive enough to believe it.) Pollard wasn't the first, and he certainly wasn't the last.

Naive would be thinking you can conduct espionage without ever getting caught. Getting caught spying a huge risk, and unless you have an even bigger risk, why would you ever do that? What can possibly justify risking getting caught spying on the US? Israel isn't dumb, it's a simple risk analysis. Unless Israel has a bigger risk to protect against, than the US cutting off ties as a result of another polard, Israel wou…

Given past performance, I don't think there is any rational reason to believe that Israel risks America severing ties with it over incidents of espionage.

In any event, Israel has a nuclear deterrent, even if they like to coyly lie about it. In the fantasy scenario where America no longer supports Israel, they'd manage just fine on their own. But again, that's not going to happen. Too many Americans think it a matter of religious imperative that they and their politicians continue to support Israel, no matter what.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#220

Post by colordrops »

chubasco wrote: post #205
chimi wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without support from the USA, it would not be possible for Israel to defend itself. Much of their spying on the USA is not to harm the USA, but to ensure the USA is still on their side. I don't think they want to hurt the USA, but I do think they would support an opponent of a politician that had been "heard" expressing a lack of interest in financial and military support for Israel.

Is it just me or does that sound an awful lot like a foreign government interfering in U.S. elections?

AIPAC is a much more overt and pernicious form of a foreign government interfering in US elections. They donate money to many US politicians, and actively setup campaigns against those they don't like, such as Ilhan Omar. It's far worse than anything Russia has ever done. And it's out in the open, so people somehow assume it's OK.
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