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Ask HN: Are you ok?

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Re: Ask HN: Are you ok?

#531
Yes, I am okay. I realized a few things this year.

First of all, I live in India. I will describe what I have experienced and seen. Most of the young developers who are passionate about the tech they don't get the chance to grow. Plus they are getting paid around $700 a month on average. once you have 5+ years of experience and you still getting paid $700. it's not gonna play out well for you. on top, you also have to deal with deadlines. most of them they quit their job and start there owns consulting or move on (now know why people prefer government job over tech. less stress and no-layoff plus good pay).

once who make $3000 a month. their work-life balance is just shit. most of them do contract work for us based clients.

in the past few days, I talked to 2 people they both make around $700 a month. one guy is working with elixir he has like 6+ years of experience in PHP, Java and some work in ROR. I am not saying that he is good or bad. I am just stating what I know.

Where I live it costs around 100000 USD to own a normal house. and one cannot dream of owning a house with that pay.

just to understand the business work. I talked to a guy who owns a small food stall about how much he makes. he said he makes more than $700 a month.

I will talk a bit about my self. I work as a full-stack developer for 8 years now. also, I am self-taught. I was still getting paid around $700. then I simply quit because of the deadlines. plus I found out that in some (corporation) anyone who just gets in makes around $1200 in the start. this kinda stayed with me and made me realized I cannot do it anymore. I think its better business to teach code than to work full-time. maybe I missed something or I am not that good of a programmer? I find it super hard to sell my self to others. I guess if you cannot sell your self you gonna end up like that.

NOTE: I am not saying all devs are getting paid less. it's all about finding the right place.

Re: Ask HN: Are you ok?

#532
post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep I want to stay in academia but I'll probably try to sell my own products one day. I could change lab I think, but I'm not guaranteed that the situation will be better elsewhere. Heck, on the paper this lab is exactly focus on the kind of stuff I want to do.

"not guaranteed that the situation is better elsewhere" - almost certainly it couldn't be worse. Labs change focus all the time, even without describing it to the world. Why else would they have bumped your research?

> Why else would they have bumped your research?

Cultural context. While the research product (papers, mainly) is very international, how the sausage is made vary greatly by countries. While one of my topic of interest have decades of interest in Europe, it got zero attention here. Also I've noticed that most papers I read in English are basically ultra-specific narrow crap tested in questionable conditions, while stuff written in my native language try to address bigger issues and are more convincing (but also less data centred). Even the way of writing a PhD thesis is different: monograph in Europe, slapping three journal papers with an intro and conclusion here.

My solution will be to continue doing the minimal amount of work that I'm forced to do and write interesting papers with my external network of colleagues. It's of course forbidden by the lab rules by I found a loophole I can exploit.

Re: Ask HN: Are you ok?

#533
post #444

I'm doing OK, my job/clients are great, but every day I can't help feeling like all I'm doing is making rich people richer. I'd like to do something real. Even contemplating a career change down the road once our savings/investments are in a good long-term spot. My wife and I are planning to start having kids in the next year or two so we'll see how that changes things. I miss my old friends; wife is a doctor (reside…

> The new friends I make here just aren't as fulfilling. Someone once told me that most people you meet, when you move later in life, are acquaintances , not friends. I found that very true, in hindsight.

I agree completely. For me it's been the hardest part of this whole 'move for work/education' thing. Every relationship just seems way more shallow and I don't feel like I can relate on nearly the same level. It seems obvious, since you guys don't have the same stories/inside jokes/trials&tribulations.

It's funny because people say to us "wow you're a doctor and a software dev, you guys are just killing it!!!" but they don't see the cost that comes with it. Perhaps we can move back but after 8 years the damage is pretty well done.

Re: Ask HN: Are you ok?

#534
Not really, previous gig broke me in many ways, I have incredibly low self confidence, I feel low and broken, had to move out of the country I began to love, and I'm not sure how to continue my career feeling like this.

Re: Ask HN: Are you ok?

#535
Appreciate the question. Not particularly - the work culture at my current employer is slowly killing me.

I have managed (through meds/therapy) depression/anxiety. The startup I'm currently working for has no work/life balance, which is severely starting to affect my health.

Engineers are on call all the time. Having to check email on nights and weekends is just a normal week now. There is very little task management, so everything is an emergency and needs to be done right away, regardless of prior tasks or schedule. My previously managed anxiety has gotten much worse from all this.

I'm burnt out, trying to make it another couple months to have enough saved up to take a sabbatical. There are days when I just want to quit and go buy a cabin somewhere and live there for a few years. I'm struggling.

Re: Ask HN: Are you ok?

#536

Nth-ing no social life and the related whines. I hate the mild feeling of discomfort I get when I tell most people I'm a software engineer. I hate having eclectic or traditional "nerdy" interests and getting a similar reaction. I've been enjoying Classic, and I have a small online circle for the niche games/music/art I like. I hate that I like these things in spite of the detriment to my social benefit to liking them…

> I hate the mild feeling of discomfort I get when I tell most people I'm a software engineer. Most software engineers have a healthy circle of friends and social life. > I hate having eclectic or traditional "nerdy" interests and getting a similar reaction. It's not any different when an electrician, lawyer or a doctor wants to talk shop. Most people you will interact with don't have the same interests as you. > I h…

>> I hate the mild feeling of discomfort I get when I tell most people I'm a software engineer.

> Most software engineers have a healthy circle of friends and social life.

Huh? OP's allusion to "mild-discomfort" when talking about their career field leads you to respond with the patronizing suggestion that "most software engineers have a healthy circle of friends"? That's an unhelpful and presumptuous piece of advice, especially considering it's directed to someone who is opening up about their current mental health issues

Re: Ask HN: Are you ok?

#537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've already put the effort into developing friendships... I moved back to my childhood home where I'm close to family and many of my life-long best friends. I see them all the time now. It doesn't matter. None of it is making me think life is worth it at this point. So what, so I get to see family and friends? Then what? I go back to bed and want to die again. My world view is mostly rooted in Camus's writing on the…

Two things: This too shall pass. You can be happy for no reason at all. HTH

> You can be happy for no reason at all.

I can't presume to speak for the OP, but a statement like that might not help. (I don't mean you shouldn't have posted it; just that it may not have the positive effect on the OP that you're hoping for.)

For some people with existential dread, the "no reason at all" aspect is the exact basis of their unhappiness. It's the sadness of nothing, ultimately, mattering in any satisfying sense.

I'm not sure everybody can relate to this kind of sadness. It's definitely near the pinnacle of Lazlo's hierarchy of needs; I'm guessing it figures into his "transcendence" category.

Re: Ask HN: Are you ok?

#538
post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hate the mild feeling of discomfort I get when I tell most people I'm a software engineer. Most software engineers have a healthy circle of friends and social life. > I hate having eclectic or traditional "nerdy" interests and getting a similar reaction. It's not any different when an electrician, lawyer or a doctor wants to talk shop. Most people you will interact with don't have the same interests as you. > I h…

> it could be poor social skills. Is this an area where you can improve? My social skills are abyssmally non-existant... I am in a suprisingly similar situation to satokemas, all but the fact that I do not ever doubt "why bother" (I love the world) and I go to high school— I don’t work, that is. I’ve been alone for two years in school now, although I just recently got one friend that is very understanding, though I g…

My social skills are abyssmally non-existant

I think you mean something else, because you're here, publicly expressing your thoughts, pretty well I might add, and you've already engaged a few people in a conversation.

I'm pretty sure your school has people you can socialize with, but you probably just don't want to socialize with them. Maybe it's because you don't find those people attractive or interesting, just like some other people in your school don't find you interesting or attractive. That's normal.

Re: Ask HN: Are you ok?

#539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>This is confirmation bias. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But you made the original claim, therefore the burden is on you to provide supporting evidence.

> But you made the original claim, therefore the burden is on you to provide supporting evidence. Not really. This is not some magical incantation that compels me to do anything, nor does it make what I said wrong. And tip if you want to win at online forum logic argument wankery (not with me though), perhaps appeals to "stereotypes" and "personal experience" are not the best place to start.

Translation: I don't have any.

Re: Ask HN: Are you ok?

#540

As a team lead, one question I always ask in my 1-on-1's: On a scale of 1-5 (low good, high bad), what's your stress level since we last met? If my teammate says 4 or 5, I ask what we can do to bring it down to a 3. We also address this as part of the simple assessment we do in each sprint retrospective. My company struggles to define meaningful KPIs and OKRs. This is the one that's most important to me.

Would it be ok for you to share : - common sources of stress - common tricks to solve them

I think other comments in this thread have done a great job of pointing to some common sources and their resolution. I'll mention a few things I've found interesting in discussing the question over the years:

1. I am often the source of unexpected stress.

Sometimes it's something I said (or didn't say). It may be something that gets interpreted in a way I didn't expect. Simply clarifying what I meant or discussing the matter further usually resolves the more serious aspects of the issue.

2. It's frequently a great way to address issues that improve performance or productivity.

This is not the point. But a lot of times I'll have a developer, especially a younger developer, say something like, "I'm really stressing out over this user story I'm working on." Then we have a higher level discussion on design or scope or something else that's blocking them.

I also learn important business-related stuff I might not have known otherwise. "Wait, you're working on that? Why are we working on that?" Or, "Oh, cool, I didn't realize we we're doing that." And then we discuss that with the goal of taking the stress out of things.

3. Personal issues do come up.

Occasionally my teammate will ask something like, "Are we talking about stuff here in the office or home, too?" I'll usually respond anything goes but note that my ability to help is largely constrained by things I can control here in the office. But that includes, as other have suggested, a more flexible schedule, days off, or referrals to others that may be better qualified to help. A manager's ability to assist is going to depend to a certain extent on the culture and policies of the organization. But as others have pointed out, sometimes the most important thing for the person you're talking to is just being heard out.

I'm a little surprised by the level of skepticism exhibited in the response to my original comment. I mean I understand it. But if your response to your manager asking this question in a 1-on-1 is to immediately question your manager's motives, I'd recommend looking for another job. I'm not saying it will be easy to find one, especially one with an organization or supervisor who is necessarily any better. But as this thread shows, they are out there. And if that is your reaction and you're not exploring your options, I think you're ignoring a huge signal regarding your wellbeing.

I'd also say if this is a question you think it would help to discuss with your manager and you're not sure how to bring it up, maybe ask them the question.

Finally, my point in mentioning this is to hopefully encourage more leads and managers to ask this question or some variant of it and pay attention to the issues raised in this thread. If your reports are unduly stressed out, you're not getting your best performance out of them. You're not really doing your job.

And to clarify this isn't an official metric in any sense. It's really just an icebreaker to get to underlying issues that may affect performance and wellbeing. 3 is a step on the way to 2. 2 is optimal in my view. But if someone is a 1 and they're getting their work done, all the better!

I'm hoping it's a corrective to a lot of the braindead KPIs and metrics and just generally toxic practices that are out there. But, yes, something like that IT Crowd clip is a potential unintended consequence of this question in the wrong organization. To the extent you can make things better for yourself and others, please do so.

If I can help anyone, you can probably guess my gmail address. Feel free to drop me an email.

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