engadget article says it's just a restraining order? unless things have changed since they published this post:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/11/sony-sues-geohot-fail0ver...
PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued
31–40 of 104 posts
Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued
#32Judging from a lot of the comments on this topic and others many geeks don't believe intellectual property should be protected. When someone creates a platform (Heroku, Facebook, Apple's App Store) they have a right to lock it down. If you don't believe in that don't buy the product!
It's not a cut-and-dry matter of whether intellectual property "should be protected". I think most hackers expect some protection in the form of copyright. However, most hackers are also tinkerers and are disturbed that current IP law so heavily favors corporate interests, even to the extent where you cannot use something you rightfully own according to your own desires. Would you buy an oven if there was a big label…
EULA's have nothing to do with copyright, it's plain contract law.
If you and I are neighbors and we agree that you I will pay you 250$ a month to not park you car in front of my house (while you legally have a right to do so), should that not be allowed?
If I am a shoe manufacturer with local retail outlets you and I agree that I will sell you my shoes for reselling overseas, but part of the agreement is that you won't sell them locally; should that be allowed?
If you and I agree that I will sell you a device but you will only use it under certain circumstances, should that be allowed?
I think the government has no business in private contracts in any of the above situations. Let people make their own agreements and then let the market decide. The only role the government has herein is to enforce contracts - what good are contracts when one party can decide retroactively that they don't like the terms anymore, and oh I don't want to cancel the contract, no I want to have my pie and eat it, too?
Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued
#33From the court order:
IT IS HEREBY ORDERED that Defendant Hotz and his officers, employees, attorneys and representatives, and all other persons or entities in privity or acting in concert or participation with Defendant Hotz, be immediately temporarily restrained from:
...Offering to the public, posting online, marketing, advertising, promoting, installing, distributing, providing, or otherwise trafficking in any circumvention technology, products, services, methods, codes, software tools, devices, component or part thereof...
...Providing links from any website to any other website selling, offering for sale, marketing, advertising, promoting, installing, importing, exporting, offering to the public, distributing, providing, posting, or otherwise trafficking in any Circumvention Devices...
And a whole lot more. Aside fromt the fact that it seems the corporate world still hasn't heard of the Streisand Effect, the language of this document is worrying. Clearly, the laws were written with commercial theft of IP and industrial espionage/reverse engineering in mind. The linguistic contortions seem to make it clear that the DMCA and CFAA were never meant to be used against hackers, but rather against counterfeiters. It's pretty disturbing that even the courts march lockstep with corporations in stretching the law to serve corporate ends.
edit: As pointed out below, this is a proposed order, not one issued by a judge. Thus, please disregard the last bit about the courts marching in lockstep with corporate interests. I'm appending rather than editing so that the responses make sense.
Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued
#34This notion of owning a piece of hardware without the legal right to take it apart worries me. Close that car hood citizen, there are secrets in there, don't make me taze you. erk: C0 CE FE 84 C2 27 F7 5B D0 7A 7E B8 46 50 9F 93 B2 38 E7 70 DA CB 9F F4 A3 88 F8 12 48 2B E2 1B riv: 47 EE 74 54 E4 77 4C C9 B8 96 0C 7B 59 F4 C1 4D pub: C2 D4 AA F3 19 35 50 19 AF 99 D4 4E 2B 58 CA 29 25 2C 89 12 3D 11 D6 21 8F 40 B1 38 C…
Yea. Seriously, don't know why sony is making fools out of themselves - seems like act of desperation. Just move on to innovating a newer version with more security. I guess lot of game developers are not happy with this.
Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued
#35From the court order: IT IS HEREBY ORDERED that Defendant Hotz and his officers, employees, attorneys and representatives, and all other persons or entities in privity or acting in concert or participation with Defendant Hotz, be immediately temporarily restrained from: ...Offering to the public, posting online, marketing, advertising, promoting, installing, distributing, providing, or otherwise trafficking in any ci…
If I'm right though, that's only a proposed restraining order? Or do I have the wrong end of the stick?
Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued
#36From the court order: IT IS HEREBY ORDERED that Defendant Hotz and his officers, employees, attorneys and representatives, and all other persons or entities in privity or acting in concert or participation with Defendant Hotz, be immediately temporarily restrained from: ...Offering to the public, posting online, marketing, advertising, promoting, installing, distributing, providing, or otherwise trafficking in any ci…
This is a proposed court order, written by Sony's lawyers. Even the PDF file name has "proposed" in it. The court can approve, amend or deny it.
Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued
#37This notion of owning a piece of hardware without the legal right to take it apart worries me. Close that car hood citizen, there are secrets in there, don't make me taze you. erk: C0 CE FE 84 C2 27 F7 5B D0 7A 7E B8 46 50 9F 93 B2 38 E7 70 DA CB 9F F4 A3 88 F8 12 48 2B E2 1B riv: 47 EE 74 54 E4 77 4C C9 B8 96 0C 7B 59 F4 C1 4D pub: C2 D4 AA F3 19 35 50 19 AF 99 D4 4E 2B 58 CA 29 25 2C 89 12 3D 11 D6 21 8F 40 B1 38 C…
Yea. Seriously, don't know why sony is making fools out of themselves - seems like act of desperation. Just move on to innovating a newer version with more security. I guess lot of game developers are not happy with this.
Why should they move to a newer version? Can't they just drop the `security'?
Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not a cut-and-dry matter of whether intellectual property "should be protected". I think most hackers expect some protection in the form of copyright. However, most hackers are also tinkerers and are disturbed that current IP law so heavily favors corporate interests, even to the extent where you cannot use something you rightfully own according to your own desires. Would you buy an oven if there was a big label…
EULA's have nothing to do with copyright, it's plain contract law. If you and I are neighbors and we agree that you I will pay you 250$ a month to not park you car in front of my house (while you legally have a right to do so), should that not be allowed? If I am a shoe manufacturer with local retail outlets you and I agree that I will sell you my shoes for reselling overseas, but part of the agreement is that you wo…
Technically yes, except with a PS3 your purchase amounts to agreement with the EULA; it's tucked away in a manual that no one reads, or at best is shown to the user on a screen during setup which is simply clicked through. Most people don't realize that they aren't buying the physical machine, they're buying the right to use the physical machine in approved ways only (this may be technically untrue, but it's certainly what it amounts to).
I find the fact that a contract can be agreed to in these ways unethical, especially when they are hidden under the guise of buying a physical product.
Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued
#39From the court order: IT IS HEREBY ORDERED that Defendant Hotz and his officers, employees, attorneys and representatives, and all other persons or entities in privity or acting in concert or participation with Defendant Hotz, be immediately temporarily restrained from: ...Offering to the public, posting online, marketing, advertising, promoting, installing, distributing, providing, or otherwise trafficking in any ci…
If I'm right though, that's only a proposed restraining order? Or do I have the wrong end of the stick?
I think you're right. There's no signature from a judge at the bottom, which suggests this is something they're submitting to the court in the hopes of having it approved. IANAL, so I don't know how that would work.
Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued
#40Judging from a lot of the comments on this topic and others many geeks don't believe intellectual property should be protected. When someone creates a platform (Heroku, Facebook, Apple's App Store) they have a right to lock it down. If you don't believe in that don't buy the product!
"[...] many geeks don't believe intellectual property should be protected."
And also, toilet paper is used to wipe asses. Many geeks indeed do even believe that intellectual "property" is a propaganda term which was coined to make the false impression that a temporary monopoly on information is somehow similar to physical property.