Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

politico.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 346 posts

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#141

Post by balls187 »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #28

What does the US get out of the special relationship with Israel? Anti-Israel sources mostly talk about the strong Jewish lobbies, while pro-Israel sources mostly cite being the only democracy in the region. Both seem misleading at best. What's the US's argument from self-interest for tolerating this kind of thing?

> What's the US's argument from self-interest for tolerating this kind of thing?

It's tolerated because US engages in similar behavior against it's allies. Officially the perpetrator denies allegations, and unofficially they pay some undisclosed penance.

The only real thing of note was the lack of official rebuke from the Trump Administration.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#142

Post by dlphn___xyz »

kryogen1c wrote: post #8

> The U.S. government concluded within the last two years that Israel was most likely behind > But unlike most other occasions I don't know if im spoiled by Wikipedia, or jaded from age, or wisened by age, or rightfully lost trust in the media, or wrongfully lost trust in the media, but i find myself entirely unwilling to accept to accept claims like this. Citation. Needed. In order to believe this article, i need to…

its doesn't seem too far fetched given the history of israeli spying in the US - citation or not.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#143

Post by balls187 »

tryitnow wrote: post #82

If this is true can you blame the Israeli government? The US has an incredibly volatile, unpredictable president. Israel is a country surrounded by states that are openly hostile and the continued survival of Israel depends, in part, on the behavior of the US. I would be disappointed if Israel wasn't doing something like this. And I'm willing to bet the US government does this sort of stuff all over the world, includ…

You don't have to bet.

Wikileaks publicized that very fact that US (NSA) spies (monitors) it's allies back in 2013.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#144

Post by partialrecall »

alfromspace wrote: post #56
hanniabu wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you try to end it, you'll be called antisemites, Holocaust deniers You're downvoted, but this has absolutely been my observation as well

I'm no fan of Rep Ilhan Omar, but I find the antisemitism charges against her absurd. AIPAC alone spends almost $70 million per year, and we're supposed to pretend lobbying has nothing to do with our seemingly unconditional support for Israel?

> I'm no fan of Rep Ilhan Omar, but I find the antisemitism charges against her absurd.

Yes, that situation seems comparable to the smears of antisemitism thrown against Jeremy Corbyn too.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#145

Post by aphextim »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #28

What does the US get out of the special relationship with Israel? Anti-Israel sources mostly talk about the strong Jewish lobbies, while pro-Israel sources mostly cite being the only democracy in the region. Both seem misleading at best. What's the US's argument from self-interest for tolerating this kind of thing?

No idea, but they tolerated Israel blowing up a US navy ship and killing sailors so I'm sure they'll give this one a pass too.

>The attack "couldn't be anything else but deliberate," the NSA's director, Lt. Gen. Marshall Carter, later told Congress.

>"I don't think you'll find many people at NSA who believe it was accidental," Benson Buffham, a former deputy NSA director, said in an interview.

>"I just always assumed that the Israeli pilots knew what they were doing," said Harold Saunders, then a member of the National Security Council staff and later assistant secretary of state for Near Eastern and South Asian affairs.

>"So for me, the question really is who issued the order to do that and why? That's the really interesting thing."

>The answer, if there is one, will probably never be known. Gen. Moshe Dayan, then the country's minister of defense; Levi Eshkol, the Israeli prime minister; and Golda Meir, his successor, are all dead.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-liberty_tuesoct02-story.h...

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#146

Post by devmunchies »

TKWasRight wrote: post #111
mschuster91 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So even if US is gaining nothing from it the alliance will continue as long as Israel needs it. The US (and the rest of the Western economies) gains two very important things: first of all, an allied democracy with real military power that is sitting right next to Arabic dictatorship states where the US are, at best, viewed as the ultimate Satan - thus ensuring the US gets and keeps (!) access to cheap oil. The sec…

Aren't we only viewed as Satan because of our support for Israel? If we stopped our support for Israel, then OUR interests would be elevated over Israel's, which would be good for us but bad for Israel. They really don't serve us that well for be our so-called "Greatest Ally." You can't just hide behind "that's antisemitism" in all cases of analysis of Israel's influence in geopolitics and specifically in U.S politic…

Thats a good point. If we weren't allied with Israel and didn't pick sides in the middle east, would we even need allies over there?

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#147

Post by TeMPOraL »

habnds wrote: post #129
nosianu wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing about this article seems untrustworthy. You got it reversed. What about it seems trustworthy ? Russel's teapot and all that, the one making claims has to prove it, not others have to disprove it. > Politico is a highly trustworthy paper Trust-proof should be per-concrete-article, not per publication. > Your comment seems out of place. [Citation needed] :-) -- Seriously, I don't see anything wrong. Okay, you…

Isn't the reputation of a publication a legitimate part of evaluating an article? Your attitude seems very close to a position that we can never truly know anything.

No, GP's position seems to be closer to "actually being sure about something requires more evidence than has been given".

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#148

Post by lostlogin »

flyinglizard wrote: post #138
tracer4201 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s unfortunate we would rely on either of these countries to be our eyes and ears. Both are corrupt. Saudi appears worst to us in the west because their daily way of life isn’t so compatible with western values, especially with respect to religion in government (or freedom of, rather) and general human rights and women’s rights. Israel appears to be democratic but discriminates heavily and are also driven to a grea…

Before you accuse Israel of discrimination, you should consider that 20% of Israelis are Arabs (compare that to 12% of Americans being black) and that Arabs had legal equality in Israel decades before blacks did in America. The relationship between Israel and its Arab minority is much more nuanced than you think. I’d call it passive aggressive, going both ways.

> Before you accuse Israel of discrimination, you should consider that 20% of Israelis are Arabs (compare that to 12% of Americans being black) and that Arabs had legal equality in Israel decades before blacks did on America.

Why should that be considered?

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#149

Post by refurb »

docdeek wrote: post #130
tracer4201 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s unfortunate we would rely on either of these countries to be our eyes and ears. Both are corrupt. Saudi appears worst to us in the west because their daily way of life isn’t so compatible with western values, especially with respect to religion in government (or freedom of, rather) and general human rights and women’s rights. Israel appears to be democratic but discriminates heavily and are also driven to a grea…

Accepting your premise, is there a non-corrupt alternative in the region?

This is key. If your filter is to never partner with countries who have done unethical things, you're never going to partner with anyone.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#150

Post by not_a_cop75 »

kryogen1c wrote: post #8

> The U.S. government concluded within the last two years that Israel was most likely behind > But unlike most other occasions I don't know if im spoiled by Wikipedia, or jaded from age, or wisened by age, or rightfully lost trust in the media, or wrongfully lost trust in the media, but i find myself entirely unwilling to accept to accept claims like this. Citation. Needed. In order to believe this article, i need to…

Here we go. The IDF will accept any article except ones that criticize Israel and then MUST require citation.
Post reply on HN