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Software engineers hard to find

articles.chicagotribune.com

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Re: Software engineers hard to find

#21

Post by gaius »

Tangurena wrote: post #10

I'm an older developer. I was eating lunch at a restaurant near my new workplace. Sitting at the table next to mine, a college senior (at Colorado School of Mines - which is a pretty decent engineering school) was talking with her father about her boyfriend interviewing for a job as a software developer. The BF had a 4 hour long programming test as part of the interview. Something is very wrong with our industry. Mos…

This is a problem that has been recurring for a long time in many technical/scientific professions, and there's really no-one "official" telling the truth. When I went to college in the 90s were were told - by even the IMechE, the body meant to represent engineers - that there was a desperate shortage. Truth is if it were desperate, that would be reflected in salaries, and despite the UK's heritage engineering is not a well paid nor prestigious profession, and even our own professional body was in the pocket of employers.

And we've got it easy compared to physicists and chemists.

Re: Software engineers hard to find

#22

Post by bcowcher »

ck2 wrote: post #5

I find it dubious someone can just decide to be a "software engineer". You'd have to already have a personal interest in programming and be doing it on your own as a hobby. Are there people who seriously just go to college for 4 years and learn coding like accounting and then just do a 9-5 job? There are thousands of decent hackers out there, maybe just uptrain.

When I was in college (this was in Australia) I honestly felt like I was one of the few who genuinely had a passion for programming. I met one or two other guys during those years who had a similar passion, but by in large it was the exception rather than the norm.

Re: Software engineers hard to find

#23

Post by gaius »

mahmud wrote: post #19

And will continue to be harder and harder as long as utter morons do the screening and hiring. I made a local-startup an offer that no sane company could afford to refuse. I was a core developer for their main behemoth of a competitor and my non-competes have just expired. They could easily save millions of dollars in marketing, research and development by JUST running decisions by me and having me nod in approval if…

The problem there will be that the competent engineers - if they have any - will have been burned by too many dud candidates wasting their time, and have gotten HR to pre-screen the CVs...

Re: Software engineers hard to find

#24

Post by ShardPhoenix »

"JumpForward interviews three to five engineers a week as it tries to fill four to six technology jobs, but most candidates don't have current skills or they lack the passion to stay on the cutting edge"

In other words, there's no shortage of software engineers, there's a shortage of perfect candidates. If these companies were actually willing to train people, they'd have a lot fewer problems.

The trend seems to be that software development, like a lot of other industries, is becoming increasingly winner-take-all, with huge demand for the very best of the best, and a lot less for anyone else.

Re: Software engineers hard to find

#25

Post by pedanticfreak »

Tangurena wrote: post #10

I'm an older developer. I was eating lunch at a restaurant near my new workplace. Sitting at the table next to mine, a college senior (at Colorado School of Mines - which is a pretty decent engineering school) was talking with her father about her boyfriend interviewing for a job as a software developer. The BF had a 4 hour long programming test as part of the interview. Something is very wrong with our industry. Mos…

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with the 4-hour test anecdote. But I think most people here would agree a warm body has more potential for harm than a cold seat when it comes to software developers. However you want to ensure you don't get a problem employee, whether it's with 4-hour tests or whatever, it is definitely a good practice regardless of how badly you need to hire someone.

Also, I completely believe that it's too hard to find good developers. I'm not sure if I've just been unfortunate due to industry or geography, but I know very few people I can recommend with confidence. And I have seen all kinds of mediocrity trying to pass as software developers. The places I have seen are the stuff TheDailyWTF is made of.

Re: Software engineers hard to find

#26

Post by rdtsc »

ck2 wrote: post #13
Tangurena wrote: post #10

I'm an older developer. I was eating lunch at a restaurant near my new workplace. Sitting at the table next to mine, a college senior (at Colorado School of Mines - which is a pretty decent engineering school) was talking with her father about her boyfriend interviewing for a job as a software developer. The BF had a 4 hour long programming test as part of the interview. Something is very wrong with our industry. Mos…

I think the secret is that part of good programming is an art, and not only something that can be taught, like accounting, with just logical rules and regulations (apologies to skilled accountants who feel there is an art to their work). That is probably why big business can't fulfill their desire for a large pool of cheap but good developers. You can't just pour people into the college machinery and churn out develo…

> That is probably why big business can't fulfill their desire for a large pool of cheap but good developers.

It is interesting, this has been going on for a while. Initially many companies went and got a lot of cheap and mediocre developers (mostly through outsourcing) and replaced a couple good ones with dozens of average ones for the same price. They saw it as a deal. Eventually they are realizing that programming is not like picking potatoes -- "Just hire more for the same price, they all sit and type all day anyway, so just get more for cheaper and we'll get ahead faster". Well it doesn't work like that.

Once mediocrity starts to dominate, even the few good ones who are still hanging around, will leave as their work turns to teaching others and babysitting them full time.

In general it is not possible to replace a highly skilled programmer with an X number of less skilled ones. Many hit that realization and we start seeing lots of these types of articles even as unemployment is above 10%

Re: Software engineers hard to find

#27

Post by tomjen3 »

RiderOfGiraffes wrote: post #17
tomjen3 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of people here on hn who complaint about how hard it is to get people willing to hire them remote. You could start there.

There are plenty of software development jobs where remote working simply isn't possible. Just as a single, simple example, there are very few neighborhoods that would tolerate an 18 foot high-speed radar antenna on a roof, and even fewer that would then have suitable objects to watch.

I am pretty sure they once said the same thing about people not working in suits. If your company can't make it work, you shouldn't be surprised if you have to look for a new job because your competitors can get people you aren't able to hire.

Re: Software engineers hard to find

#28

Post by patio11 »

mahmud wrote: post #19

And will continue to be harder and harder as long as utter morons do the screening and hiring. I made a local-startup an offer that no sane company could afford to refuse. I was a core developer for their main behemoth of a competitor and my non-competes have just expired. They could easily save millions of dollars in marketing, research and development by JUST running decisions by me and having me nod in approval if…

This reminds me of a conversation (from before my consultant days), when a company burning a multiple of that daily was unable to locate budget for either SEO or A/B testing. The mind boggles sometimes.

Re: Software engineers hard to find

#29

Post by rdtsc »

gaius wrote: post #23
mahmud wrote: post #19

And will continue to be harder and harder as long as utter morons do the screening and hiring. I made a local-startup an offer that no sane company could afford to refuse. I was a core developer for their main behemoth of a competitor and my non-competes have just expired. They could easily save millions of dollars in marketing, research and development by JUST running decisions by me and having me nod in approval if…

The problem there will be that the competent engineers - if they have any - will have been burned by too many dud candidates wasting their time, and have gotten HR to pre-screen the CVs...

The job of a good HR department is to at least be able to screen the really dumb ones and pass the rest up the technical chain for evaluation.

The good engineers might be burned out but if they know that not spending time interviewing and reviewing resumes will result in having to deal with a dud that gets hired, having to babysit them, teach them the basics of programming and watch them slowly destroy the code base, they would be quite happy to assist with evaluations.

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