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Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

politico.com

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Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#111

Post by TKWasRight »

mschuster91 wrote: post #51
mamon wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstand the power dynamics in this alliance: Israel is the boss, US is the muscle. So even if US is gaining nothing from it the alliance will continue as long as Israel needs it. If you try to end it, you'll be called antisemites, Holocaust deniers, etc. until you submit.

> So even if US is gaining nothing from it the alliance will continue as long as Israel needs it. The US (and the rest of the Western economies) gains two very important things: first of all, an allied democracy with real military power that is sitting right next to Arabic dictatorship states where the US are, at best, viewed as the ultimate Satan - thus ensuring the US gets and keeps (!) access to cheap oil. The sec…

Aren't we only viewed as Satan because of our support for Israel? If we stopped our support for Israel, then OUR interests would be elevated over Israel's, which would be good for us but bad for Israel.

They really don't serve us that well for be our so-called "Greatest Ally."

You can't just hide behind "that's antisemitism" in all cases of analysis of Israel's influence in geopolitics and specifically in U.S politics ..it's not being intellectually honest

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#112

Post by creaghpatr »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #78
creaghpatr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>according to three former senior U.S. officials with knowledge of the matter. It would matter if there were any substance to the claims, it might make sense. But instead, the article goes a step further as you quote here: >> The former senior intelligence official criticized how the administration handled the matter, remarking on the striking difference from past administrations, which likely would have at a very mi…

You're moving the goalposts. Regardless of the intent of the piece, it clearly cites its sources.

It cites 3 former senior administration officials, which narrows it down to thousands of people who may or may not be privy to such info. It’s the same as saying, “according to 3 human beings...” . The sources won’t be burned so we’ll never know- it’s the same as making it up.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#113

Post by pnongrata »

amitport wrote: post #55
pnongrata wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel espionage? That's ludicrous. https://www.mintpressnews.com/cia-israel-mossad-jeffrey-epst...

Former CIA and Mossad workers working in the highly (and badly) regulated private sector is not "Israel espionage" on the US government. Edit: Why the down vote?

Private companies and Israel defense and intelligence agencies have deep ties, and the article shows. For instance:

> Mossad Director Yossi Cohen told the paper that the Mossad’s partnership with civilian companies in Israel is “excellent” and that the agency will continue to strengthen those ties.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#114

Post by nradov »

Udik wrote: post #108
nradov wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK is part of the "Five Eyes" intelligence alliance and as such has no real need to spy on the US president. I would assume that Germany is spying on the US but just hasn't been caught (at least not publicly).

> The UK is part of the "Five Eyes" intelligence alliance and as such has no real need to spy on the US president. Because belonging to the "five eyes" means they get to hear the official and private conversations of Trump for free? And since the answer is "no, of course not" your argument is completely irrelevant.

You missed the point. If the UK gets caught spying on the US president then they're out of Five Eyes. That would be a much greater loss than anything they could gain through such spying.

Germany has much less to lose.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#116

Post by TKWasRight »

Udik wrote: post #92
wbl wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spying is part of life. We do it, they do it, everybody foes it.

When was the last time that British or German spies were caught spying on the US president? And even in that case, the relationship between the US and Israel is a unique one: as one swears to be the best friend ever of the other, while enjoying lavish funding and unwavering political protection. While the president of the US can accuse people who vote for the opposition to be disloyal to Israel . That is, disloyal to…

That is where one issue where you'll see some agreement between the two parties...unending commitment and funding for Israel...it seems like Israel is making out like bandits from this one-way "relationship"

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#118

Post by tracer4201 »

kstenerud wrote: post #79
SuoDuanDao wrote: post #28

What does the US get out of the special relationship with Israel? Anti-Israel sources mostly talk about the strong Jewish lobbies, while pro-Israel sources mostly cite being the only democracy in the region. Both seem misleading at best. What's the US's argument from self-interest for tolerating this kind of thing?

Israel and Saudi Arabia are America's eyes and ears into the Middle East. It could have been any nation (indeed, America tried to get Iran as well, but was... less than successful). These kinds of relationships require a fair bit of quid pro quo, and of course for a country like Israel whose very national security depends upon a cozy relationship with America, it's perfectly understandable that they'd be spying on Am…

It’s unfortunate we would rely on either of these countries to be our eyes and ears. Both are corrupt. Saudi appears worst to us in the west because their daily way of life isn’t so compatible with western values, especially with respect to religion in government (or freedom of, rather) and general human rights and women’s rights.

Israel appears to be democratic but discriminates heavily and are also driven to a great extent by extremist hardliners and outright corruption (ie Netanyahu's numbers are down, so he wants to annex more of the West Bank). Also, you’re not supposed to criticize anything they do out of fear of being labeled an anti Semite.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#119

Post by dahfizz »

habnds wrote: post #19
kryogen1c wrote: post #8

> The U.S. government concluded within the last two years that Israel was most likely behind > But unlike most other occasions I don't know if im spoiled by Wikipedia, or jaded from age, or wisened by age, or rightfully lost trust in the media, or wrongfully lost trust in the media, but i find myself entirely unwilling to accept to accept claims like this. Citation. Needed. In order to believe this article, i need to…

Citations in journalism is a really interesting thing. Unlike science, where at least in theory, everything is built from the ground up using first principles or built upon raw data collected, the "raw data" of journalism is just various types of conversations with people the journalist then has to verify, and gauge the reliability of. In other cases it's the journalists first person experience of an event. Citations…

I think the issue is less about literal citations and more about having any sort of hard fact to back up big claims.

It would be very easy for media companies to 100% fabricate many of the stories we see. I'm not saying that they are, but I have no real reason to believe otherwise. The only supporting evidence provided anymore is 'anonymous sources'.

We have to just trust that what the media says is the truth, because there is no way for us to verify the stories we hear. Whether you do trust these corporations or not, having to rely on that blind faith is a bad system.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#120

Post by TKWasRight »

buyingarmor wrote: post #4

Israel and the U.S are extremely strong alliance Also the Mossad is working a lot with the secret service in the U.S I believe there is a deeper reason behind those actions that won't be revealed to us (it can also explain the lack of actions of the U.S towards this case)

> Israel and the U.S are extremely strong alliance

Citation needed. We hear this all the time, but from where I stand it looks like a pretty one-sided "relationship."

We give them billions every year while running a deficit and what do we get from it?

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