Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

geohot.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 104 posts

Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

#21

Post by baddox »

atomical wrote: post #14

Judging from a lot of the comments on this topic and others many geeks don't believe intellectual property should be protected. When someone creates a platform (Heroku, Facebook, Apple's App Store) they have a right to lock it down. If you don't believe in that don't buy the product!

It's not just "many geeks" that don't believe intellectual property should be protected. The software engineering community in general concludes that treating software like property is illogical and perhaps harmful. At least around where I'm from, software engineers and computer scientists are explicitly taught in their ethics seminars that the entire analogy of "intellectual property" has serious logical and ethical problems inherent in it.

Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

#22

Post by trotsky »

atomical wrote: post #14

Judging from a lot of the comments on this topic and others many geeks don't believe intellectual property should be protected. When someone creates a platform (Heroku, Facebook, Apple's App Store) they have a right to lock it down. If you don't believe in that don't buy the product!

With opinions like yours it's a miracle we have libraries.

Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

#23

Post by arohner »

loire280 wrote: post #11
heretoo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should have leaked the keys through wikileaks .. harhar.. But seriously, the fail0verlflow guys had legitimate grounds to exploit the PS3. Sony had taken away OtherOS, effectively crippling the product they had purchased, which was advertised as offering this feature. Imagine instead, what would happen if Sony had taken away the ability to play games?..

Then Sony's console business would go bankrupt? But seriously, except for scientific computing, the PS3 was a terrible Linux system, especially for the price. Is this really about restoring functionality, or is it just punishment?

The PS3 is now viable as a new host platform for XMBC (XBox Media Center).

>Then Sony's console business would go bankrupt?

The Music and Movie industries continue to stay in business even in the face of piracy. Wake me up when PS3 pirating comes close to the level of Napster. I'm not justifying piracy, just saying that Sony should be more worried about their real competitors.

Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

#24

Post by sorghum »

maeon3 wrote: post #8

This notion of owning a piece of hardware without the legal right to take it apart worries me. Close that car hood citizen, there are secrets in there, don't make me taze you. erk: C0 CE FE 84 C2 27 F7 5B D0 7A 7E B8 46 50 9F 93 B2 38 E7 70 DA CB 9F F4 A3 88 F8 12 48 2B E2 1B riv: 47 EE 74 54 E4 77 4C C9 B8 96 0C 7B 59 F4 C1 4D pub: C2 D4 AA F3 19 35 50 19 AF 99 D4 4E 2B 58 CA 29 25 2C 89 12 3D 11 D6 21 8F 40 B1 38 C…

This bit in particular disturbs me:

>> First, the PS3 System consists of a “protected computer” because it is used in interstate commerce (e.g., the Internet.) Second, without SCEA’s authorization, Defendants intentionally accessed certain levels of the PS3 Systems by circumventing SCEA’s TPMs in the PS3 Systems. Defendants’ access to such levels in the PS3 Systems is not authorized; to the contrary, the PlayStation Network Terms of Service and User Agreement (“PSN User Agreement”) prohibits the circumvention of security features in the PS3 System.

It looks like there is a legal definition of a "protected computer" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_computer), but I can't imagine it was ever intended to apply to one's own computer. Furthermore, how is the PlayStation Network user agreement relevant here? You don't have to agree to anything to buy a PS3, only to use the optional PSN service.

Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

#25

Post by Andys »

atomical wrote: post #14

Judging from a lot of the comments on this topic and others many geeks don't believe intellectual property should be protected. When someone creates a platform (Heroku, Facebook, Apple's App Store) they have a right to lock it down. If you don't believe in that don't buy the product!

If I buy physical goods, I have an expectation that I completely own it and can do with it whatever I want, and can share my experience completely with others.

What Sony is trying to say is that when you buy a PS3 you are sort of renting it, and they still own what you can and can't do with it. Perhaps because they are selling it at a loss so they can make money when you buy games. I think that in this case they should NOT sell the device to consumers but lease/rent it, because that is the agreement they are really looking for.

Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

#27

Post by pyre »

sorghum wrote: post #24
maeon3 wrote: post #8

This notion of owning a piece of hardware without the legal right to take it apart worries me. Close that car hood citizen, there are secrets in there, don't make me taze you. erk: C0 CE FE 84 C2 27 F7 5B D0 7A 7E B8 46 50 9F 93 B2 38 E7 70 DA CB 9F F4 A3 88 F8 12 48 2B E2 1B riv: 47 EE 74 54 E4 77 4C C9 B8 96 0C 7B 59 F4 C1 4D pub: C2 D4 AA F3 19 35 50 19 AF 99 D4 4E 2B 58 CA 29 25 2C 89 12 3D 11 D6 21 8F 40 B1 38 C…

This bit in particular disturbs me: >> First, the PS3 System consists of a “protected computer” because it is used in interstate commerce (e.g., the Internet.) Second, without SCEA’s authorization, Defendants intentionally accessed certain levels of the PS3 Systems by circumventing SCEA’s TPMs in the PS3 Systems. Defendants’ access to such levels in the PS3 Systems is not authorized; to the contrary, the PlayStation…

It sounds like they are grasping for straws with that claim. I think that it's likely to get thrown out. If it doesn't get immediately tossed out, or at least defeated in court, then it would be time to worry.

Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

#28

Post by pyre »

dools wrote: post #20
maeon3 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about freedom to tinker, It is wrong to seize some hackers computers and sue him because he was able to figure out how a device he owned worked. I don't want to live in a world where I become a criminal for even attempting to figure out how MY stuff works.

Well, in practice you only get prosecuted if you publish your results on the internet. This guy could have figured out how his stuff works all he wants, and even shown his friends, with impugnity.

That may be, but selectively enforced laws are evil by their very nature.

Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

#29

Post by temugen »

Andys wrote: post #25
atomical wrote: post #14

Judging from a lot of the comments on this topic and others many geeks don't believe intellectual property should be protected. When someone creates a platform (Heroku, Facebook, Apple's App Store) they have a right to lock it down. If you don't believe in that don't buy the product!

If I buy physical goods, I have an expectation that I completely own it and can do with it whatever I want, and can share my experience completely with others. What Sony is trying to say is that when you buy a PS3 you are sort of renting it, and they still own what you can and can't do with it. Perhaps because they are selling it at a loss so they can make money when you buy games. I think that in this case they shou…

It may seem like renting to you, but unfortunately those licensing terms you agree to when you open a package of new hardware or install a piece of software, are legal. It is a shame, but if you don't agree to it, don't buy and use the product. Sony, in this case, has strong reasons for wanting to protect their console. Namely because of the contracts they hold with certain chip makers, and because they are expecting profits from playstation games to offset production costs of the console, of which there are none if people are buying loads of them to run their clusters.

Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

#30

Post by alexqgb »

atomical wrote: post #14

Judging from a lot of the comments on this topic and others many geeks don't believe intellectual property should be protected. When someone creates a platform (Heroku, Facebook, Apple's App Store) they have a right to lock it down. If you don't believe in that don't buy the product!

This is a joke, right?

I can't believe you're seriously comparing online platforms owned and operated by their creators to a hardware platform that's neither.

Post reply on HN