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Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

politico.com

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Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#81
post #68

> The U.S. government concluded within the last two years that Israel was most likely behind > But unlike most other occasions I don't know if im spoiled by Wikipedia, or jaded from age, or wisened by age, or rightfully lost trust in the media, or wrongfully lost trust in the media, but i find myself entirely unwilling to accept to accept claims like this. Citation. Needed. In order to believe this article, i need to…

Quick and easy way to deal with this: disregard the daily news entirely unless it profits you. Israel left listening devices around the White House? Big if true, but we have the Department of State, Intelligence Community and Department of Defense to deal with this crap in approximately that order. If it turns into anything big or is part of something bigger, someday there will be a book about it. News in all its for…

> Big if true, but we have the Department of State, Intelligence Community and Department of Defense to deal with this crap in approximately that order.

The big news here is that nothing happened and nothing is gonna happen. People should start getting some clues from what should happen, and yet doesn't.

Edit: at the time of this edit, the news is already on the front page of the Guardian and the BBC. Completely absent from the NYTimes and Washington Post. Pay attention to what doesn't happen.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#82
If this is true can you blame the Israeli government? The US has an incredibly volatile, unpredictable president. Israel is a country surrounded by states that are openly hostile and the continued survival of Israel depends, in part, on the behavior of the US.

I would be disappointed if Israel wasn't doing something like this.

And I'm willing to bet the US government does this sort of stuff all over the world, including Israel.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#83

> The U.S. government concluded within the last two years that Israel was most likely behind > But unlike most other occasions I don't know if im spoiled by Wikipedia, or jaded from age, or wisened by age, or rightfully lost trust in the media, or wrongfully lost trust in the media, but i find myself entirely unwilling to accept to accept claims like this. Citation. Needed. In order to believe this article, i need to…

This has been reported on before and it seems many countries possibly ran sting rays in Washington. It's maybe normal.

The article might be both technically right and fake.

Potential Spy Devices Which Track Cellphones, Intercept Calls Found All Over D.C., Md., Va.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/Potential-Spy-D...

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#84

What does the US get out of the special relationship with Israel? Anti-Israel sources mostly talk about the strong Jewish lobbies, while pro-Israel sources mostly cite being the only democracy in the region. Both seem misleading at best. What's the US's argument from self-interest for tolerating this kind of thing?

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Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#85
post #81
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick and easy way to deal with this: disregard the daily news entirely unless it profits you. Israel left listening devices around the White House? Big if true, but we have the Department of State, Intelligence Community and Department of Defense to deal with this crap in approximately that order. If it turns into anything big or is part of something bigger, someday there will be a book about it. News in all its for…

> Big if true, but we have the Department of State, Intelligence Community and Department of Defense to deal with this crap in approximately that order. The big news here is that nothing happened and nothing is gonna happen. People should start getting some clues from what should happen, and yet doesn't. Edit: at the time of this edit, the news is already on the front page of the Guardian and the BBC. Completely abse…

Spying is part of life. We do it, they do it, everybody foes it.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#86

What does the US get out of the special relationship with Israel? Anti-Israel sources mostly talk about the strong Jewish lobbies, while pro-Israel sources mostly cite being the only democracy in the region. Both seem misleading at best. What's the US's argument from self-interest for tolerating this kind of thing?

The (well-intentioned) mistake you're making is assuming US officials' top priority is the greater interests of America, rather than their own personal interests. You could just as easily ask what the US gets out of the special relationship with Saudi Arabia, a country ruled by murderous tyrants, and the country of origin of the majority of the 9/11 highjackers.

In the cases of both Israeli lobby influence and Saudi royal's influence, the answer is money and power. Our members of congress are very easily influenced by "donations", and those two groups happen to be particularly wealthy.

On the flip side, the Mossad and many other intelligence groups are particularly good at getting blackmail material on politicians. If you don't play ball and you get in their way, they have the ability to ruin your career as well.

In my opinion, I would say the turning point where the US started to prioritize Israel as an ally was after the Suez Crisis. "In October 1965 Eisenhower told Jewish fundraiser and Republican party supporter Max M. Fisher that he greatly regretted forcing Israel to withdraw from the Sinai peninsula; Vice-President Nixon recalled that Eisenhower expressed the same view to him on several occasions." [Alteras, Isaac (1993). Eisenhower and Israel: U.S.-Israeli Relations, 1953-1960].

After Eisenhower's presidency, JFK further strengthened this alliance:

"As president, Kennedy initiated the creation of security ties with Israel, and he is credited as the founder of the US-Israeli military alliance, which would be continued under subsequent presidents. Kennedy ended the arms embargo that the Eisenhower and Truman administrations had enforced on Israel. Describing the protection of Israel as a moral and national commitment, he was the first to introduce the concept of a "special relationship" (as he described it to Golda Meir) between the US and Israel.[207]"

One exception was when JFK resisted Israel's efforts to develop nuclear weapons, which they felt was crucial in their survival as a country. "In a May 1963 letter to Ben-Gurion, Kennedy wrote that he was skeptical and stated that American support to Israel could be in jeopardy if reliable information on the Israeli nuclear program was not forthcoming, Ben-Gurion repeated previous reassurances that Dimona was being developed for peaceful purposes." You'll note that he was assassinated only months later. Not to get all conspiracy theory, but I've always felt the timing was a bit suspect.

Long story short, the US as a nation may not get much benefit from the relationship, but the individual politicians do. Until we get rid of the concept of lobbies, PACs, and require all campaigns to be tax-funded, politicians will continue to serve the countries and groups that pay them, not the American populace.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#87
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citations in journalism is a really interesting thing. Unlike science, where at least in theory, everything is built from the ground up using first principles or built upon raw data collected, the "raw data" of journalism is just various types of conversations with people the journalist then has to verify, and gauge the reliability of. In other cases it's the journalists first person experience of an event. Citations…

> Unlike science, where at least in theory, everything is built from the ground up using first principles or built upon raw data collected, the "raw data" of journalism is just various types of conversations with people the journalist then has to verify, and gauge the reliability of. Agreed. > I personally don't think efforts to "fix the news" as a result of facebook or whatever make a lot of sense in this context. I…

I see what you're saying but I don't agree that they were presenting the officials opinion as fact.

The reason we could criticize it in the first place is that it's clearly the opinion of an official who Politico judged as a credible expert on the matter of how these issues are commonly handled.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#89

Israel and the U.S are extremely strong alliance Also the Mossad is working a lot with the secret service in the U.S I believe there is a deeper reason behind those actions that won't be revealed to us (it can also explain the lack of actions of the U.S towards this case)

>Israel and the U.S are extremely strong alliance

Not always; google for 'dancing israelis'

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#90

> The U.S. government concluded within the last two years that Israel was most likely behind > But unlike most other occasions I don't know if im spoiled by Wikipedia, or jaded from age, or wisened by age, or rightfully lost trust in the media, or wrongfully lost trust in the media, but i find myself entirely unwilling to accept to accept claims like this. Citation. Needed. In order to believe this article, i need to…

What kind of citation would make you believe that the US government concluded it was Israel? Or about the other occasions? A lot of times when people don't like a story they shoot the messenger.
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