PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued • Hacker News Board

Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

#11

Post by loire280 » Wed, Jan 12, 2011, 5:58 AM UTC

heretoo wrote: post #9

GooseFlyFox wrote: post #5

Sony is always willing to spread the love while I fully understand the desire and drive to reverse and break the security of closed platforms.. grandstanding about your success in a public way traceable to you seems really misguided... It would seem better to release and wait for the ashes to settle first no?

Should have leaked the keys through wikileaks .. harhar.. But seriously, the fail0verlflow guys had legitimate grounds to exploit the PS3. Sony had taken away OtherOS, effectively crippling the product they had purchased, which was advertised as offering this feature. Imagine instead, what would happen if Sony had taken away the ability to play games?..

Then Sony's console business would go bankrupt?

But seriously, except for scientific computing, the PS3 was a terrible Linux system, especially for the price. Is this really about restoring functionality, or is it just punishment?

Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

#12

Post by honeycrisp » Wed, Jan 12, 2011, 6:02 AM UTC

loire280 wrote: post #11

heretoo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should have leaked the keys through wikileaks .. harhar.. But seriously, the fail0verlflow guys had legitimate grounds to exploit the PS3. Sony had taken away OtherOS, effectively crippling the product they had purchased, which was advertised as offering this feature. Imagine instead, what would happen if Sony had taken away the ability to play games?..

Then Sony's console business would go bankrupt? But seriously, except for scientific computing, the PS3 was a terrible Linux system, especially for the price. Is this really about restoring functionality, or is it just punishment?

It can't be both?

Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

#13

Post by sp332 » Wed, Jan 12, 2011, 6:10 AM UTC

loire280 wrote: post #11

heretoo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should have leaked the keys through wikileaks .. harhar.. But seriously, the fail0verlflow guys had legitimate grounds to exploit the PS3. Sony had taken away OtherOS, effectively crippling the product they had purchased, which was advertised as offering this feature. Imagine instead, what would happen if Sony had taken away the ability to play games?..

Then Sony's console business would go bankrupt? But seriously, except for scientific computing, the PS3 was a terrible Linux system, especially for the price. Is this really about restoring functionality, or is it just punishment?

It's also about homebrew. I think PS3 homebrew games launched from the XMB and run under Game OS could be very cool.

Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

#14

Post by atomical » Wed, Jan 12, 2011, 6:12 AM UTC

Judging from a lot of the comments on this topic and others many geeks don't believe intellectual property should be protected. When someone creates a platform (Heroku, Facebook, Apple's App Store) they have a right to lock it down. If you don't believe in that don't buy the product!

Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

#15

Post by terrym » Wed, Jan 12, 2011, 6:17 AM UTC

loire280 wrote: post #11

heretoo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should have leaked the keys through wikileaks .. harhar.. But seriously, the fail0verlflow guys had legitimate grounds to exploit the PS3. Sony had taken away OtherOS, effectively crippling the product they had purchased, which was advertised as offering this feature. Imagine instead, what would happen if Sony had taken away the ability to play games?..

Then Sony's console business would go bankrupt? But seriously, except for scientific computing, the PS3 was a terrible Linux system, especially for the price. Is this really about restoring functionality, or is it just punishment?

Since it involved a group of people doing it, you can't really know what the true motivation behind it was -- but I think removing the otherOS functionality simultaneously gave the movement behind this 2 things:

1) Motivation, attention, and energy (more people hearing about their efforts, offering their help, more passionately)

2) An area to focus their energy on (jailbreaking, or restoring access to homebrew/otheros as a goal)

Another thing to consider is that as far as I know, you should in theory be able to run the system at it's full capacity with the latest hack, whereas anything running on otheros was crippled by default.

Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

#16

Post by cookiecaper » Wed, Jan 12, 2011, 6:19 AM UTC

atomical wrote: post #14

Judging from a lot of the comments on this topic and others many geeks don't believe intellectual property should be protected. When someone creates a platform (Heroku, Facebook, Apple's App Store) they have a right to lock it down. If you don't believe in that don't buy the product!

It's not a cut-and-dry matter of whether intellectual property "should be protected". I think most hackers expect some protection in the form of copyright. However, most hackers are also tinkerers and are disturbed that current IP law so heavily favors corporate interests, even to the extent where you cannot use something you rightfully own according to your own desires.

Would you buy an oven if there was a big label that said "IT IS ILLEGAL TO USE THIS OVEN FOR BROWNIES; ALL BROWNIE BAKERS WILL BE PROSECUTED"? Do you think laws that allow that kind of thing are good? Remember, this isn't a rented oven, you bought the whole thing outright. Why should there be laws that allow hardware makers to say "THIS COMPUTER CAN ONLY RUN MOBILE OS 5.5; ALL USERS OF NON-MOBILE OS 5.5 WILL BE PROSECUTED"?

What about (cooling it on the caps) "it is illegal to publish the words etched into the bottom of this oven. Do not read the words on the bottom of this oven"?

Copyright was originated to make the creation of intellectual property economically worthwhile so that more intellectual content could be produced and distributed. I think we crossed that threshold a long time ago and now we've gone way overboard into the other extreme; our current laws actively discourage creativity, which is the exact opposite of their purpose.

Why doesn't your post say, "It seems many companies don't believe that those that purchase their hardware have a right to use it according to their own dictates. If these companies don't believe in that, don't mass produce and sell your product to everyone!"?

Surely massive distribution with no restriction on buyers is a horrible way to keep a secret.

Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

#17

Post by maeon3 » Wed, Jan 12, 2011, 6:21 AM UTC

atomical wrote: post #14

Judging from a lot of the comments on this topic and others many geeks don't believe intellectual property should be protected. When someone creates a platform (Heroku, Facebook, Apple's App Store) they have a right to lock it down. If you don't believe in that don't buy the product!

It's about freedom to tinker, It is wrong to seize some hackers computers and sue him because he was able to figure out how a device he owned worked.

I don't want to live in a world where I become a criminal for even attempting to figure out how MY stuff works.

Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

#18

Post by tomjen3 » Wed, Jan 12, 2011, 6:24 AM UTC

atomical wrote: post #14

Judging from a lot of the comments on this topic and others many geeks don't believe intellectual property should be protected. When someone creates a platform (Heroku, Facebook, Apple's App Store) they have a right to lock it down. If you don't believe in that don't buy the product!

If you can't see the difference between the examples you posted and the ps3, you shouldn't be posting on hn.

Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

#19

Post by amock » Wed, Jan 12, 2011, 6:27 AM UTC

atomical wrote: post #14

Judging from a lot of the comments on this topic and others many geeks don't believe intellectual property should be protected. When someone creates a platform (Heroku, Facebook, Apple's App Store) they have a right to lock it down. If you don't believe in that don't buy the product!

I think people believe that once you buy hardware you should be able to do whatever you want with it.

Re: PS3 Root Key Hacker Sued

#20

Post by dools » Wed, Jan 12, 2011, 6:27 AM UTC

maeon3 wrote: post #17

atomical wrote: post #14

Judging from a lot of the comments on this topic and others many geeks don't believe intellectual property should be protected. When someone creates a platform (Heroku, Facebook, Apple's App Store) they have a right to lock it down. If you don't believe in that don't buy the product!

It's about freedom to tinker, It is wrong to seize some hackers computers and sue him because he was able to figure out how a device he owned worked. I don't want to live in a world where I become a criminal for even attempting to figure out how MY stuff works.

Well, in practice you only get prosecuted if you publish your results on the internet. This guy could have figured out how his stuff works all he wants, and even shown his friends, with impugnity.