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Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

politico.com

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Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#51
post #32

What does the US get out of the special relationship with Israel? Anti-Israel sources mostly talk about the strong Jewish lobbies, while pro-Israel sources mostly cite being the only democracy in the region. Both seem misleading at best. What's the US's argument from self-interest for tolerating this kind of thing?

You misunderstand the power dynamics in this alliance: Israel is the boss, US is the muscle. So even if US is gaining nothing from it the alliance will continue as long as Israel needs it. If you try to end it, you'll be called antisemites, Holocaust deniers, etc. until you submit.

> So even if US is gaining nothing from it the alliance will continue as long as Israel needs it.

The US (and the rest of the Western economies) gains two very important things: first of all, an allied democracy with real military power that is sitting right next to Arabic dictatorship states where the US are, at best, viewed as the ultimate Satan - thus ensuring the US gets and keeps (!) access to cheap oil. The second thing is that all the military hardware Israel buys or gets "donated" as military aid by the US secures American, French and German jobs in the defense industry.

> If you try to end it, you'll be called antisemites, Holocaust deniers, etc. until you submit.

If you're really claiming Israel is the boss / "secret ruler", you don't need to complain about being called an antisemite. The trope of Israel / "shadow Jews" ruling the world is one of the oldest antisemitic conspiracy theories in history.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#53
post #6

> Israel doesn’t conduct espionage operations in the United States, period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard

In fairness, Israel claims they learned a lesson from that incident and implemented the policy you're quoting as a result. edit: Some weird downvotes here. I'm not saying I believe they don't actually spy, but they have made that promise: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/22/israel-condemn... > Since Pollard's conviction, Israel has promised not to spy on the US. Israeli ministers said on Sunday that Israel…

> Israeli ministers said on Sunday that Israel does not spy on the US president or defence secretary

OK so they don't spy on 2 very specific persons, what about the rest of the country?

Plus trusting anything what Mosad says is like trusting Israelis that they don't have nuclear bombs and don't bomb their neighbors from obtaining the same... doesn't make any sense at all

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#54
post #17

> The miniature surveillance devices, colloquially known as “StingRays,” mimic regular cell towers to fool cell phones into giving them their locations and identity information. I realize that roaming is a thing, and I don’t know how cellular protocols work, but I am curious why at this point phones don’t connect to towers anonymously, authenticate towers by default, encrypt identity, etc..? Surely the phone could be…

The whole reason that StingRay exists is that even GSM phones connect "anonymously-enough" that it is hard to track an subscriber by purely passive means and doing active MitM is simpler.

In GSM the cellphone did not authenticate the network in any way. UMTS and up has mutual network-SIM authentication.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#55
post #6

> Israel doesn’t conduct espionage operations in the United States, period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard

Israel espionage? That's ludicrous. https://www.mintpressnews.com/cia-israel-mossad-jeffrey-epst...

Former CIA and Mossad workers working in the highly (and badly) regulated private sector is not "Israel espionage" on the US government.

Edit: Why the down vote?

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#56
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstand the power dynamics in this alliance: Israel is the boss, US is the muscle. So even if US is gaining nothing from it the alliance will continue as long as Israel needs it. If you try to end it, you'll be called antisemites, Holocaust deniers, etc. until you submit.

> If you try to end it, you'll be called antisemites, Holocaust deniers You're downvoted, but this has absolutely been my observation as well

I'm no fan of Rep Ilhan Omar, but I find the antisemitism charges against her absurd. AIPAC alone spends almost $70 million per year, and we're supposed to pretend lobbying has nothing to do with our seemingly unconditional support for Israel?

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>according to three former senior U.S. officials with knowledge of the matter. It would matter if there were any substance to the claims, it might make sense. But instead, the article goes a step further as you quote here: >> The former senior intelligence official criticized how the administration handled the matter, remarking on the striking difference from past administrations, which likely would have at a very mi…

It is not so hard to imagine why the source would like to remain anonymous.

It's also extremely common to float false information through "anonymous government officials."

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>according to three former senior U.S. officials with knowledge of the matter. It would matter if there were any substance to the claims, it might make sense. But instead, the article goes a step further as you quote here: >> The former senior intelligence official criticized how the administration handled the matter, remarking on the striking difference from past administrations, which likely would have at a very mi…

It is not so hard to imagine why the source would like to remain anonymous.

Correct, which is why it is oppo laundering, as opposed to just a hit piece.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#59
> In 2010, the secret covers of a Mossad hit team, some of whom had been posing as tennis players, were blown after almost 30 minutes of surveillance video was posted online of them going through a luxury Dubai hotel where they killed a top Hamas terrorist in his room.

For those who have not yet seen the footage in question, here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJujIwtdk8w

Captivating stuff.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#60
post #50

What does the US get out of the special relationship with Israel? Anti-Israel sources mostly talk about the strong Jewish lobbies, while pro-Israel sources mostly cite being the only democracy in the region. Both seem misleading at best. What's the US's argument from self-interest for tolerating this kind of thing?

* An excuse to subsidize the US defence industry * Improvements to US military technology (Israel tweaks stuff and then we use their tweaks) * Anti-terrorism training and expertise (we started caring a lot more in 2001; they've been dealing with it longer than that) * A liberal democracy in a part of the world without any others (whether or not you value this is up to you, but many Americans do) * Intelligence * A lo…

The Liberal democracy value is highly debatable as shown by the treatment of the Arab spring as well as the strategic alliance with K.S.A.
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