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Ask HN: How do you keep your programming motivation up?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you keep your programming motivation up?

#121

Post by ghettolabs »

redmondperl wrote: post #35
flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #27

>Working on boring, crappy projects for a living is just killing me, and you never know until you get on the job. How do you deal with this? I deal with it by choosing not to work on crappy projects. If a company or the project they want you to work on is crappy, don't choose them! There aren't many non-crappy tech jobs in my neck of the woods, so I branched out on my own. I do the odd consulting gig if you're a smal…

> working on an algorithmic trading bot right now. Any suggestions on how to approach building algorithmic trading bots?

Get your bot working first in your preferred language, mine is python. Then look at some of the libraries available. Ta-lib is a good one to start out with. Then combine the two, your bot and your code for trading with ta-lib.

Re: Ask HN: How do you keep your programming motivation up?

#122

Post by scarface74 »

oAlbe wrote: post #120
scarface74 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A) and now you’re competing in a commoditized market where they can easily hire someone cheaply. This would be the type of skillset I would keep up to date if I need a job/contract now and I wasn’t on the market by choice. B) There are still a relatively few jobs in Go and they don’t seem to be paying more than your standard enterprise language. I’m not wasting my time learning a language/technology with both a small…

I'm curious, where do you find accurate and up-to-date data about market size, number of jobs, and average pay for programming languages? I could definitely use this information to better plan my next career move.

It’s more nuanced. It’s not the absolute “market size” it’s whether the market is large enough.

I can keep up with that from talking to former managers, former coworkers, my network of local recruiters, recruiters job listings, LinkedIn posts, Indeed job listings, etc.

For example. Let’s say from all over those sources I see the following trends.

Senior consultant positions (in my case AWS). There are relatively few jobs in my local market compared to everything else that pay enough to make me jump ship just for the money. But when they do become open. I’m building my resume and skillset to be qualified for these types of jobs. If I leave my company on my own terms, I can wait until the perfect position opens up. If I need to find a job now I can’t afford to wait and it’s too risky for me to over specialize in an area where local jobs aren’t plentiful.

On that same note, the only reason I am specializing in AWS instead of Azure is because that’s the job I ended up in. Even though the market for AWS is much larger than Azure, the Azure market is more than large enough so it doesn’t matter. GCP on the other hand...

If I take that same mentality to Java, C#, and Go, the same thing applies. Java is more popular in the enterprise, but C# is popular enough that you can quickly find a job, it’s hard to ask for above average compensation just for a developer job since there are plenty of people who can do it “well enough” to develop your bog standard SAAS CRUD app or bespoke internal app. But they pay well enough. The cost of living is relatively low in Atlanta.

On the other hand, I don’t see that many jobs for Go developers locally and when they do appear, the salary is the same as C# and Java. Why specialize in a language where the demand is lower and the compensation is the same - unlike AWS Consulting.

Learning Go would mean I am neither optimizing for salary or for optionality to find a job quickly.

Of course, it’s always good to have Javascript in your back pocket because of the web and it’s used for server side code, desktop apps, and cross platform mobile apps.

As far as my next career move, I am not sure. Extra money would always be nice, but cloud consulting/enterprise consulting doesn’t excite me. I have a decent work life balance and I enjoy my current stability.

On the other hand, I am getting bored with developing, a change of pace would be nice and increasing my savings and investments wouldn’t hurt.

Re: Ask HN: How do you keep your programming motivation up?

#123

Post by watwut »

scarface74 wrote: post #69
watwut wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do learn framework of the day while job hunting. You do not have to learn every framework of the day while having a job.

No job is permanent - always keep your running shoes around your neck. Whether I am actively looking for a job or not, optionality is important.

Yeah, but it is not like learning framework was months of effort. You learn it fast we you decide to.And it is not like job would disappear completely unexpectedly - you can see the signs.

I am not advocating not learning things for 20 years. I think it is ok to skip 1-2 years, then you check state and learn framework, relax, learn something fun, relax, learn framework, repeat.always one not all.

Re: Ask HN: How do you keep your programming motivation up?

#124

Post by scarface74 »

maxaf wrote: post #36

Programming is the single thing I'm capable of that has allowed me to provide an upper middle class lifestyle for my family. I will keep doing it for as long as it serves the function. I don't require any other motivation.

This.

My motivation for programming is strictly that I get an above average amount deposited into my account twice a month to do a relatively easy job in an air conditioned office or at home.

Re: Ask HN: How do you keep your programming motivation up?

#125

Post by quickthrower2 »

scarface74 wrote: post #117
quickthrower2 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 17years I’m yet to have an interview where I’m quizzed on any JS framework or a store that isn’t relational, as a web and back end dev. Not heard the word GraphQL uttered In person ever :-). A lot of jobs exist where they just want to know you can code and assume you’ll learn what you need as you go along. Experience in their languages seems most important.

The last time I had a hard core technical interview was in 1999. I had been working for 3 years and they needed someone who knew the ins and outs of cross platform C development. By the time I got back out on the market ten years later, I was already 35 and I was able to talk about projects, architecture, trade offs involved in shipping, etc and I was applying for mid level roles - partially because I had become an e…

> There are only two reasons anyone is interviewing for a job. ...

I like the insight here about the two types of job and looking back at my jobs I think this is spot on.

There is another reason to change jobs which is for lifestyle reasons. Moving country, changing to a work from home/digital nomad would come under that. In the lifestyle case you are probably trading other factors for the lifestyle factor, so that would also more likely lead to the buzzword compliant route.

Re: Ask HN: How do you keep your programming motivation up?

#126

Post by probinso »

scarface74 wrote: post #4
mieseratte wrote: post #3

I don't. Turning my hobby into my career killed my hobby and, really, that's fine. It affords me a good life and the ability to discover and enjoy new hobbies. If you're worried about "keeping up," then I would suggest you 1) ignore the rat-race that is framework-of-the-day and 2) focus on learning fundamentals of your domain. Sure, you'll miss out on some hip startup jobs but typical employers don't care about your…

Ignoring the framework of the day and “learning the fundamentals” won’t get you past the either HR filters or make you competitive with developers who are constantly doing Resume Driven Development and have a resume that is buzzword compliant. Especially if you are an older developer (I’m 45) and you will just be seen as just another old out of touch developer. That being said, the further down the stack you go, the…

study things that aren't trends / frameworks if you don't want to follow the latest trends.

learn stan (still relevant technology despite being one of the oldest in its domain). learn image processing. learn database administration.

Re: Ask HN: How do you keep your programming motivation up?

#127

Post by scarface74 »

watwut wrote: post #123
scarface74 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No job is permanent - always keep your running shoes around your neck. Whether I am actively looking for a job or not, optionality is important.

Yeah, but it is not like learning framework was months of effort. You learn it fast we you decide to.And it is not like job would disappear completely unexpectedly - you can see the signs. I am not advocating not learning things for 20 years. I think it is ok to skip 1-2 years, then you check state and learn framework, relax, learn something fun, relax, learn framework, repeat.always one not all.

It depends on what I’m optimizing for - to add value at my current company or to add value to my resume for the broader market. Hopefully I can choose a technology that lets me do both. But if my company is paying me an higher than median wage, and I see things going well at the company I’m with now, I optimize for learning what I can to ask for more money where I am. If I don’t see that happening and I can get more somewhere else or I’m falling too far behind, I’m optimizing for buzzword compliance.

Luckily, right now, everything is in the right place for my current job.

- they are paying me above the local median (we are talking Atlanta here not Silicon Valley)

- the technology stack we are using is not bleeding edge but in the right place in the hype cycle.

- I think they will continue to do so for the next two years.

But you’re right. I’m not going to spend my time learning the latest frameworks if I am not going to use it at my current job and I don’t see myself in the market within six months. But if my company ever got too far behind the market, I would have to start preparing.

Re: Ask HN: How do you keep your programming motivation up?

#128

Post by scarface74 »

probinso wrote: post #126
scarface74 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring the framework of the day and “learning the fundamentals” won’t get you past the either HR filters or make you competitive with developers who are constantly doing Resume Driven Development and have a resume that is buzzword compliant. Especially if you are an older developer (I’m 45) and you will just be seen as just another old out of touch developer. That being said, the further down the stack you go, the…

study things that aren't trends / frameworks if you don't want to follow the latest trends. learn stan (still relevant technology despite being one of the oldest in its domain). learn image processing. learn database administration.

“Database Administration” is a bullet point for most companies not a complete job. Specializing in it definitely doesn’t give you the optionality of a wider range skillset like a developer who also knows about database administration.

How many companies need someone who specializes in “image processing”? Soon, if it’s not already a commodity library that any company can leverage.

Re: Ask HN: How do you keep your programming motivation up?

#129

Post by flyGuyOnTheSly »

twoquestions wrote: post #113
flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #27

>Working on boring, crappy projects for a living is just killing me, and you never know until you get on the job. How do you deal with this? I deal with it by choosing not to work on crappy projects. If a company or the project they want you to work on is crappy, don't choose them! There aren't many non-crappy tech jobs in my neck of the woods, so I branched out on my own. I do the odd consulting gig if you're a smal…

> I deal with it by choosing not to work on crappy projects. Most don't have this luxury, and have to eat what moldy bread they can get their hands on. There isn't enough to go around in most places.

The rest of my comment above addresses the lack of non-crappy projects available which I suffer from dearly as well, I can assure you.

They're few and far between in my neck of the woods too!

tl;dr work for yourself... figure out how to make some money selling something or trading or consulting and do it.

Re: Ask HN: How do you keep your programming motivation up?

#130

Post by a-saleh »

scarface74 wrote: post #115
a-saleh wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are paths and trade-offs. a) Focus on technologies that have staying power. I don't think Java EE jobs will really ever disappear b) instead of flavour of the month, focus on the flavour of the decade? i.e. Go and Kubernetes seems to be the trend :) c) instead of resume-driven development, focus on having a network. Most of my jobs have merged because a former colleague, classmate or friend realized I knew some…

A) and now you’re competing in a commoditized market where they can easily hire someone cheaply. This would be the type of skillset I would keep up to date if I need a job/contract now and I wasn’t on the market by choice. B) There are still a relatively few jobs in Go and they don’t seem to be paying more than your standard enterprise language. I’m not wasting my time learning a language/technology with both a small…

I kinda agree, that is why I was talking trade-offs.

In reality, you probably mix bit-of-collum-a/bit-of-collum-b.

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