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Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

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Re: Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

#331

Post by chenning »

ptero wrote: post #129
kareemm wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you can't always opt out of someone else's decisions. Example: Doorbell Cams taking video of you walking by, uploading it to a corporate database, identifying you using photo recognition algorithms and your location using the home's address, and using that information to sell you things.

Fair. But even this (at least in the US) is the flip side of the laws that in public areas I can take any photos that I want. And I generally like this setup -- I can snap pictures of friends and kids without worrying about proving my right to take those photos). This should not be taken for granted -- in the UK I was twice (very politely) asked to leave because I was taking a picture and apparently a gov't building…

Think of everything you would have to do to avoid being surveilled today. Heck, think about everything you would have had to do even 40-50 years ago. I think the issue is not wether or not you can avoid being surveilled. I think that debate is largely settled. So the next logical question is, what are the rules governing access to that data? At what point do you need consent and from whom do you need consent? I think the fear, sadly, is that even if we come up with rules there is the challenge of how to apply them retroactively or in a backwards-compatible way. It's quite possible that we now we significant portions of the economy relying on companies having unfettered access to their data. I see parallels between this and the shift to renewable energy. Revenue from oil companies is tightly woven into the fabric of the US economy in many ways.

Re: Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

#332

Post by stale2002 »

slg wrote: post #257
stale2002 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the motives for leaking information regarding our actions on foreign soil against foreign citizens? Because many of the spying actions were against Americans. Did you not read the leaks?

Sure, I read them. Many of them were about operations against US citizens. However, not all of them were. Here[1] is one example that comes to mind. That story in this leak is interesting, newsworthy, had serious repercussions, and was potentially unethical for the US government to do. However it is also exactly the type of thing everyone expects the NSA to be doing and it doesn't involve the spying on any Americans.…

> However, not all of them were.

Ok, but many were. Therefore it is a problem.

And spying on Americans is something that many people have a problem with.

Re: Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

#333

Post by nickpsecurity »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #193
jascii wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems good practice not to assume there are no other ways to id/fingerprint a device then by mac address..

That's actually the opposite of good practice; good practice in security is to base your planning off of facts and research. Throwing away your whole setup after every gig works for Mission: Impossible, and I guess it makes people feel extra-super-ninja, in practice it just perpetuates the endless (and pointless) culture of I-know-something-you-don't. Opsec should be based on reality and threat modeling, not endless…

"That's actually the opposite of good practice"

Good security practice is considering all devices as insecure until proven otherwise. Also, mitigating known unknowns where a general problem happens a lot. Devices snooping on you, misleading you, interdiction, hacks on firmwate, etc. Then, you mitigate it in situations where you're unsure of what's going on just in case. So, long as mitigation isn't too costly.

I used to buy and get rid of WiFi devices and throwaway computers for that reason. Also, buy them in person at random places with cash. You can even turn it into charity by using FDE, wiping them afterwards, and reselling cheap or donating to others that cant afford full price. Put Ubuntu and Firefox on them to spread some other good things.

Re: Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

#334

Post by BeetleB »

duxup wrote: post #119
apexalpha wrote: post #53

I can't speak for the US but this man has shifted so much of the political debate in my country and I think also in the EU in general. If you talked about the massive surveillance from governments people tossed you aside as a paranoid lunatic. After Snowden no one could ignore you anymore and privacy is an aspect in any public debate.

> If you talked about the massive surveillance from governments people tossed you aside as a paranoid lunatic. I wonder how much that was any given person, or just that the availability of such surveillance has increased dramatically.

> I wonder how much that was any given person, or just that the availability of such surveillance has increased dramatically.

The UK introduced (public) mass surveillance long before Snowden was on the scene.

Re: Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

#335

Post by monocasa »

wannabcodr wrote: post #271
abugheratwork wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the motives for leaking information regarding our actions on foreign soil against foreign [human beings]? Which side of an imaginary line you were born on should not determine your rights. If he leaked documents about operations against Americans, and then also about operations against foreigners, in my mind he did the same thing twice. If there was another difference, like spilling the location or identit…

Just the fact that, at the time in 2013, a large amount of unknown data was stolen and shared with foreign powers by someone with such privileged access was certain to have catalyzed risk adjustments to global operations, including down to the level of specific human assets. Without a doubt, those in the military are informed that Snowden absolutely did real damage to operations. I’ve heard this in person from multip…

> Without a doubt, those in the military are informed that Snowden absolutely did real damage to operations. I’ve heard this in person from multiple military officers. Casualties aren’t going to be discussed.

They said the same thing about Chelsea Manning, then in her trial the prosecution finally admitted that they couldn't actually point to any casualties.

Re: Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

#336

Post by anchpop »

faet wrote: post #93
iandinwoodie wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens to the other 90%? Is this typical for book authors?

It is very typical. Assuming Print on Demand w/ amazon. He's not doing that but we'll just assume to keep it easy. And list price of $24 Amazon takes $5 to print Amazon takes $9.60 royalty That leaves $9.40 or 40% available. Of that Macmillan takes their cut to cover editing, covers, advertising, etc. And what is left is probably $2.40 for each sale. For Self published folks (going eBooks this time). Assuming you lis…

He's using a traditional publisher which means he likely got a decent advance. Even if he didn't, he was likely able to negotiate a better deal than most authors because of his fame

Re: Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

#337

Post by Synaesthesia »

slg wrote: post #297
Synaesthesia wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People say this on this basis of hearsay, like he “selectively released documents” for which there is no evidence.

One huge ethical red flag for Assange and Wikileaks is their view on redacting documents. They published numerous details that a traditional journalistic outlet would never make public include the names of informants. This almost certainly resulted in people being killed.

To my knowledge nobody has ever died as a result of what they have reported. They do careful redaction.

Re: Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

#338

Post by BeetleB »

slg wrote: post #297
Synaesthesia wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People say this on this basis of hearsay, like he “selectively released documents” for which there is no evidence.

One huge ethical red flag for Assange and Wikileaks is their view on redacting documents. They published numerous details that a traditional journalistic outlet would never make public include the names of informants. This almost certainly resulted in people being killed.

> They published numerous details that a traditional journalistic outlet would never make public include the names of informants.

Valerie Plame would like to have a word with you.

If we keep going down this road we'd end up with No True Scotsman. The reality is "traditional" journalists have done this - Assange is not an outlier in this regard. If we tolerate the "worst" of the traditional (which US society clearly does), then we can't use this as an argument against Assange.

Re: Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

#339

Post by prossercj »

snowden_report wrote: post #242
apexalpha wrote: post #53

I can't speak for the US but this man has shifted so much of the political debate in my country and I think also in the EU in general. If you talked about the massive surveillance from governments people tossed you aside as a paranoid lunatic. After Snowden no one could ignore you anymore and privacy is an aspect in any public debate.

Much discussion on this topic relies on popular sentiment and media reporting. The redacted and declassified Congressional report should be considered a primary source and contradicts many common beliefs about Mr. Snowden: https://www.congress.gov/114/crpt/hrpt891/CRPT-114hrpt891.pd... The Executive Summary provides a good overview. In contrast to the Amazon book page that claims he helped "build" the system, it appe…

Thanks, I didn't realize that such a report exists. Although I remain skeptical about some things on both sides, I'm glad to understand the official position better.

Re: Edward Snowden: Permanent Record

#340

Post by csomar »

sleepychu wrote: post #3

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No kidding. I got the same: https://imgur.com/a/jroD1Ji
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