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There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work

37signals.com

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Re: There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do pillory film, literary and food critics who are caught basing their review on a publicity still of the work in question. It is not unreasonable to expect a critic to watch/read/eat/use the film/book/food/UI in question before calling its creator a "fucking hack".

I need not take a bit of a cow pie to tell you that it will taste like shit. I can tell from where I'm sitting.

It's a cute metaphor, but what would you think of eating a lobster from looking at one?

If you're going to be the authority on the taste of cow shit (shit tastes like shit is, of course, a tautology), you better eat some cow shit.

Re: There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work

#93
Is it me or is RTFHIG actually generating discussion, adding value and generally making sense? What is it that 37signals are doing in this post again?

Oh, I'm sorry, trying to engage in a urinal measurement comparison.

There seems to be a thing amongst blogs and indeed writers. They reach a certian level in which they comment on things that affect them, then they comment on things that don't affect them, then they seem to adopt a particular stance that seems controversial to us, but not to them, because thus far we have celebrated them - they have become celebrities. I've seen this with Guber, I've seen this with 37 signals. Perhaps one day this will happen to me (hopefully I'll never become important enough). From that point on the shark is never far away from jumping.

I don't think 37 signals jumped the shark here, but I do think they went too far. They're right, there is no place for just shitting all over other people's work. Shame they forgot their perspective on who was doing the shitting.

Re: There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I need not take a bit of a cow pie to tell you that it will taste like shit. I can tell from where I'm sitting.

It's a cute metaphor, but what would you think of eating a lobster from looking at one? If you're going to be the authority on the taste of cow shit (shit tastes like shit is, of course, a tautology), you better eat some cow shit.

You don't need to use an application to know that a close button that is sixty pixels large, with an appearance that's completely inconsistent with the rest of the application, along with the operating system at large, and is positioned in the wrong place... is poor design.

http://readthefuckinghig.tumblr.com/post/2651530636/when-you...

Half of using a visual interface is visual. You can tell a lot about the quality of a GUI-based application by the level of effort that went into making it look correct.

Re: There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work

#95
There are a few things I'd like to throw in here: 1 is that I didn't even know what the fucking HIG was so I had to look it up and, hell, thanks to that website, if I ever choose to put an App on the Apple App store (highly unlikely), I will probably look up the HIG, and read it. Thankyou.

Secondly this post by 37 signals is inspired by RTFH but the headline is "There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work" - and that's a true statement.

This is something that is particularly rife in amongst programmers: they point at each other and say "what? you don't use X and do X? then you are a shit programmer". Life is about getting things done and getting things done necessitates compromise.

You should see how shit the videos I just made for my product are. They're totally shit, but it's the best I could do and I wanted to put something up there. I didn't have the money to pay a professional or the time to learn to do it better - there you go. Whilst I was doing it my own internal monologue kept saying "This looks like the investor pitch video for Prestige Worldwide" (if you don't get that reference, it's from the film "Step Brothers").

If someone posted my videos on a website called "makeyourfuckingvideosgood.tumblr.com" I wouldn't necessarily be offended because it would generate traffic to my site and I know my limitations and have no sense of pride in what I've created, but that doesn't make it right for someone to wantonly create zero value assertions about the quality of others' work (let me say, though, that I would say that humour adds value so Maddox's "I am better than your kids" is exempt).

Now lastly, I find it somewhat ironic that 37signals have posted all this shitting on the person's work who writes RTFH. Perhaps they could have included some constructive criticism on how to improve their writing, or posted alternative examples of satire they enjoy more.

Perhaps the most appropriate response would have been to create readsomefuckingsatire.tumblr.com and put that site on it.

As professionals we should all be continually learning and improving, and we should never disparage someone who has not learned or improved as much as us in a given field because, as the OP points out:

they're making something and that's awesome.

That's the key point I took out of this post, and it's an attitude I'm going to work harder to cultivate in my own life.

Re: There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work

#96
post #78

Don’t try to win over haters. You’re not the Jackass Whisperer. --Scott Stratten

Says the same guy who's frequently quoted as saying "you're doing it wrong!"

Which guy is frequently quoted as saying that? I'm bewildered.

Also, is that an Ad Hominem? If the quoted line is incorrect, it should be possible to refute it directly without discussing the speaker's credentials or other sayings.

Re: There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work

#97
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

http://www.theodore-roosevelt.com/trsorbonnespeech.html

Re: There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work

#98
post #19
post #14

I rarely enjoy 37 Signals posts, but I heartily agree with Jason Z. (new guy?). There's so much negativism on the net in general; everyone seems threatened by everyone else. And you find it here, too, a place where you'd expect to find nothing but support and encouragement. (To be fair: HN is full of supportive people; there's just more negativity than you'd expect. I'm probably guilty of that, too, although I'm maki…

FWIW, I think parents/friends give blind support and encouragment. HN/peers/tech community should give complete honesty. If that means saying "That idea is terrible" so be it.

Who is hoping to gain from the public ridicule? I doubt it is the target.

With this in mind, it would be wise to direct critical feedback privately to the creator. I believe feedback delivered directly and privately is more likely to see the desired change.

Praise in public, criticise in private.

Re: There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a cute metaphor, but what would you think of eating a lobster from looking at one? If you're going to be the authority on the taste of cow shit (shit tastes like shit is, of course, a tautology), you better eat some cow shit.

You don't need to use an application to know that a close button that is sixty pixels large, with an appearance that's completely inconsistent with the rest of the application, along with the operating system at large, and is positioned in the wrong place ... is poor design. http://readthefuckinghig.tumblr.com/post/2651530636/when-you... Half of using a visual interface is visual. You can tell a lot about the quality…

Or, to ground this in actual HCI terms: from a screenshot alone, you should be able to see the affordances of a design. If you need more than the screenshot to find your way around the app, the app is badly designed in other ways (mystery-meat navigation.) Thus, it is actually the Principle of Charity that would have us evaluate the app by a screenshot.

Re: There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work

#100

Did anyone else notice that the Apple Human Interface Guide is hard to read on a widescreen monitor? I clicked on the link and the text was a good 18" wide. You would think they would know about making a website readable. http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/UserEx...

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