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California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

nytimes.com

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Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#531

Post by [deleted] »

chongli wrote: post #400
whiddershins wrote: post #246

All these people making Uber money on the side ... the whole thing was possible in part due to the low friction in (and also complete disregard for) the regulatory environment. I’m in NYC and honestly can’t figure out how to legally hire a studio assistant for a few hours a week without being at risk for any of a number of lawsuit vectors. So I just coil my own cables. And I don’t mentor people who want to learn some…

The way to protect workers is to shift the burden of health care and other costly benefits onto the government, supported by taxes. Then there is no risk to hiring a new employee beyond the wages you pay them. The US public does not want this, though, and the war of words over universal health care has led to incredibly deep entrenchment on the side of those opposed. All this despite the mountain of evidence from oth…

[deleted]

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#532

Post by ska »

jchallis wrote: post #420
djsumdog wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America, you have to work until you die. The major thing the gig economy takes from people is health care. It's insanely expensive, and the Affordable Care Act is a terrible shamble of broken policy. I spent time outside of the US and came back to find health care worse than when I left it: https://fightthefuture.org/article/returning-to-america-and-... I have a friend who has been fighting brain cancer for over a…

Based on the very large revenue from foreign patients who come to America to get cancer treatment on their own dime, those patients and their families care about getting the best treatment.

> Based on the very large revenue ...

It's really not that simple, even if some political talking heads would like you to think so. People travel to the US for some treatments, and people travel from the US for others. It's not even clear if there is a net inflow or net outflow.

All this really shows you is that people with the resources to do so are willing to travel for care, which shouldn't surprise anyone. Either for "the best treatment" (which depending on disease and treatment could be many places in Europe, US, Canada, etc.) or for more affordable treatment (cf US residents traveling to Canada for drug renewals).

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#533

Post by goatinaboat »

alimbada wrote: post #290
goatinaboat wrote: post #8

Let’s hope that the UK follows this lead very soon, and collects all the taxes Uber owes us, backdated.

Amazon, Apple Google et al owe orders of magnitude more in taxes than Uber do. Get your priorities straight.

Agreed but we’ve got to start somewhere. Think of Uber as an appetiser.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#534

Post by TimPC »

athenot wrote: post #398
nickjj wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will probably come as a surprise to you (it did me several years ago), that it’s not simply up to you and the company hiring you if you are considered a freelancer. Where do you draw the line? Let's say you hire someone for 3 hours to help you out for a specific task. A "I would like X done with Y" type of scenario. Are they now considered an employee? What if you asked someone to do a code review for 5 hours wh…

Not legal advice but... Usually in your situation you will have your own computer, your own workspace (except for meetings with the client), and deliver things based on a predefined scope (or predefined set of expectations). That's good enough to make you a freelancer. On the other hand, if the company told you to use their laptop, show up in their office, work using their methods—effectively manage how you work... t…

Using company equipment gets complicated pretty fast. Some 'contractors' have to use company equipment because the company won't allow proprietary or regulated data on machines they don't own. Is that enough to make someone an employee?

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#535

Post by kritiko »

bllguo wrote: post #525
dragonwriter wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US public does not want this That's far from clear. Polling fairly consistently shows that the US public favors at least some degree of it (particularly shifting the healthcare burden from employers to government, other benefits have less political salience), though any particular plan for the detailed mechanism may have trouble gaining majority support.

But it seems like an apathetic kind of want. There are degrees imo; if the people truly wanted something they would exert more effort than this showing. As it stands people may say they want it in polls but won't even vote for politicians that will make it a reality.

you have stories in the US of people dying from lack of access to insulin or rationing insulin.I wouldn't question that they "truly wanted" to live. but political organizing in the US around healthcare and other social benefits seems to pale in comparison to European countries. to say nothing of how low voter participation is.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#537

Post by mixmastamyk »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #503
unksdfnaajhfjk wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why I don't understand why people take gig jobs. Sometimes Compared to what? is the most important question. I've been driving for a few years. Before this I was making minimum wage with no benefits. Before that I had a difficult stretch of unemployment. One of my least favorite questions passengers ask me is What did you do before this? because I don't really like to talk about it. It is a rough job - you…

So, you'd rather drive without a guaranteed minimum wage, possibility for unemployment benefits, or health care benefits? I fail to see how that leaves the driver in a better position.

It's the age-old minimum wage debate over again.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#538

Post by slantedview »

chongli wrote: post #400
whiddershins wrote: post #246

All these people making Uber money on the side ... the whole thing was possible in part due to the low friction in (and also complete disregard for) the regulatory environment. I’m in NYC and honestly can’t figure out how to legally hire a studio assistant for a few hours a week without being at risk for any of a number of lawsuit vectors. So I just coil my own cables. And I don’t mentor people who want to learn some…

The way to protect workers is to shift the burden of health care and other costly benefits onto the government, supported by taxes. Then there is no risk to hiring a new employee beyond the wages you pay them. The US public does not want this, though, and the war of words over universal health care has led to incredibly deep entrenchment on the side of those opposed. All this despite the mountain of evidence from oth…

> The US public does not want this, though

Actually a majority of Americans support the idea of single payer healthcare [1], and the number goes up depending on how the question is asked. The problem is the political obstacles, which are enormous given the power of the health insurance, pharma, and hospital industries.

https://www.kff.org/slideshow/public-opinion-on-single-payer...

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#539

Post by stefan_ »

EpicEng wrote: post #344
Quanttek wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "flexibility" means precarity as the majority of gig employees do this full-time: >In California, the legislation will affect at least one million workers who have been on the receiving end of a decades-long trend of outsourcing and franchising work, making employer-worker relationships more arm’s-length. Many people have been pushed into contractor status with no access to basic protections like a minimum wage…

>Experts said that there is nothing in the bill that requires employees to work set shifts, and that Uber and Lyft are legally entitled to continue allowing drivers to make their own scheduling decisions. Well yeah, it doesn't force them to. Who are these "experts"? If Uber takes on 100,000 new employees and all of the costs that go along with them, why wouldn't they also manage them like... employees? You can't have…

Because Uber has been arguing that people work for them because of the flexibility? So when they don't offer it, people won't work for them, employed or not?

This is such a weird response. Like Uber would institute some schedule out of spite, and why even.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#540

Post by aianus »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #508
labrador wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drive Lyft and Uber in the SF Bay Area. I'm a retired computer programmer and I need to supplement my income to have spending money. I'm on MediCal which is a great health insurance program and easy to get on if you are low income. I'm actually making really good money driving. When I am smart about knowing when and where to be I can make a too much money even working part time, by which I mean I will disqualify my…

What is the additional cost of having an insurance rider to cover when you're rideshare driving? I haven't pulled a quote, but I imagine that could be expensive due to increased liability.

I can only answer for Toronto, Canada but the answer was nothing. Uber has a deal with one of the insurance companies up here so you’re covered at no extra charge. (Intact / Belair Direct).

Uber pays them directly for a big commercial contract to cover you when you’re driving for Uber.

Edit: added "for Uber" on the last sentence

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