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Teslas Aren't the Future

theweek.com

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Re: Teslas Aren't the Future

#11

Post by tharne »

Media outlets need to start hiring folks who live outside of a handful of trendy metro areas like New York, San Francisco, or DC (or in this case, Toronto).

It's quite obvious that the author has not spent much time in the types of communities where most people actually live, nor does he seem to have much familiarity with the concept of child rearing.

I'm not going to load my young children and 12 bags of groceries onto some pay-by-the-mile micro scooter. I'm going to use my minivan.

Has the author ever even installed a carseat? If you have children under the age of 10 or 12 then things like Uber, Ridesharing, etc. are pretty much out of the question due to laws around car seats and child safety.

Urban planners have been trying all manner of sticks and carrots (mostly sticks) to get people out of their cars for over 30 years now with very little success, outside of a few very high density older metro areas like London or New York.

Cars are popular because they give people convenience and flexibility that the didn't have before. Very few people are going to give that up voluntarily. This is doubly true when you have children.

If the author is going to pontificate on the future of transportation, he may want to think about the giant chunk of the population living in the suburbs and raising children. Otherwise it's just an article about the future of transportation for childless professionals living in trendy cities built before WWII.

Re: Teslas Aren't the Future

#12

Post by kwhitefoot »

Did someone say they were? Seems like the article is arguing against something that no one is promoting and offering solutions that have been available for many years and not yet taken up. Where I live (Norway) electric scooters, hoverboards, etc., are all in use and have been for years but they are typically replacing walking not driving.

I agree with the article that things can suddenly change in unpredictable ways once a new technology becomes massively available. But it seems to me that both of us are pretty much stating the obvious.

Re: Teslas Aren't the Future

#13

Post by seanmcdirmid »

tharne wrote: post #11

Media outlets need to start hiring folks who live outside of a handful of trendy metro areas like New York, San Francisco, or DC (or in this case, Toronto). It's quite obvious that the author has not spent much time in the types of communities where most people actually live, nor does he seem to have much familiarity with the concept of child rearing. I'm not going to load my young children and 12 bags of groceries o…

Your kid should be in a booster by 5 or 6, and then they transition out of that between 8 and 12 (4’9”). Once they are in a booster, you can conceivably carry it around and use a ride share. See https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/on...

Buses and trains/trams don’t require child seats, so they can always be used. Some states also exempt taxis and passenger van services.

Uber offered car seats in a few markets once upon a time. Not sure if they still do, or how it would really work considering different kids require different seats.

Re: Teslas Aren't the Future

#14

Post by Barrin92 »

tharne wrote: post #11

Media outlets need to start hiring folks who live outside of a handful of trendy metro areas like New York, San Francisco, or DC (or in this case, Toronto). It's quite obvious that the author has not spent much time in the types of communities where most people actually live, nor does he seem to have much familiarity with the concept of child rearing. I'm not going to load my young children and 12 bags of groceries o…

>It's quite obvious that the author has not spent much time in the types of communities where most people actually live, nor does he seem to have much familiarity with the concept of child rearing.

Urbanisation around the world is rapidly increasing with the formation of urban areas in China or India that might include more than a hundred million people.

It's very ironic that you're accusing the author of not getting out of the city when the rest of the entire world is getting into the city, I'm sorry to say that the American suburbs are not the fulcrum of the world any more. By talking about the future of the American city the author is at least approaching what is going to be the most relevant living arrangement of the future.

And when we're talking about children the Dutch may be of some advice who manage to carry them around just fine. Even in Western Europe which is more comparable to the US, children do not automatically imply the need for a car.

Re: Teslas Aren't the Future

#15

Post by ForHackernews »

mreome wrote: post #9

> healthier cities > move through cities > cities populated with these vehicles This article seems to be forgetting how many people don't live in cities. > For long distance trips, inclement weather, or for the elderly or disabled, of course cars will still play a role. In the part of the US I live in, about about 4 continuous months of the year could easily be described as "inclement weather" and many of my coworker…

The majority (>60%) of Americans live in cities: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-33....

A environment designed and built to make car-ownership a requirement (your word) has massive ecological and sociological downsides, and we should be doing what we can to shift away from it.

Re: Teslas Aren't the Future

#16

Post by falcolas »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #5
alexlesuper wrote: post #2

We're not about to raze suburban cities to the ground, so electric cars are a good in-between.

There is no reason not to consider getting better mass transit into suburbs, along with densification of suburbs and other land use changes. Some simple alterations to zoning/planning regulations would lead to more mixed residential/commercial uses even in already-existing developments. And that would make working and commuting locally _within_ the suburbs themselves more feasible. Put it this way, if we were to take…

The cost-benefit ratio of pushing mass transit out to suburbs just isn't there. They are separate cities, so you can't just say the metropolis should foot the bill (despite being the recipient of their work), you can't get the suburban cities to pay for it, since it's beyond what they can realistically foot.

The infrastructure isn't there, and putting it in in 2019 is financially untenable.

Re: Teslas Aren't the Future

#17

Post by wilg »

The article argues that the "simpler" solution is better – but surely the simpler solution is having better cars than convincing everyone to take a scooter or a bike, which have big drawbacks in many common scenarios.

I also support denser city living, with walkability (and scootability and bikeability) between work, home, shops, and everything else. Let's get that started and start our cities evolving to support that as soon as possible.

However, it seems like everybody has forgotten that cars (especially if you aren't the one driving) are really a quite good user experience, and that's why people prefer them.

Re: Teslas Aren't the Future

#18

Post by kemitche »

ForHackernews wrote: post #15
mreome wrote: post #9

> healthier cities > move through cities > cities populated with these vehicles This article seems to be forgetting how many people don't live in cities. > For long distance trips, inclement weather, or for the elderly or disabled, of course cars will still play a role. In the part of the US I live in, about about 4 continuous months of the year could easily be described as "inclement weather" and many of my coworker…

The majority (>60%) of Americans live in cities: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-33.... A environment designed and built to make car-ownership a requirement (your word) has massive ecological and sociological downsides, and we should be doing what we can to shift away from it.

That article says the average population density of cities is ~1,500 per square mile. NYC has a population density of ~27,000 people per square mile. There's a huge gap in the viability of foregoing a car between cities of those densities. A large portion of the US's cities are a LONG way from being able to go car-free.

Re: Teslas Aren't the Future

#19

Post by kemitche »

bwanab wrote: post #10
alexlesuper wrote: post #2

We're not about to raze suburban cities to the ground, so electric cars are a good in-between.

This is the right way to think about it. EVs are a transitional technology. They allow us to maintain the current lifestyle choices while simultaneously empowering the reduction of reliance on fossil fuels. One can make no further statements without venturing into speculation on potential "best" futures that many find objectionable. I'd personally like to see a future in which housing in cities is much denser, public…

I don't see suburban areas ever becoming truly mass transit viable.

I DO see a future where the benefits of living in denser-packed cities outpace the downsides, encouraging more and more of the US population to live in areas that are (or become) population dense enough for car-free lifestyles to be viable.

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