So... reincorporate subsidiary in Micronesia and ignore the laws from there?
California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
391–400 of 754 posts
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#392Can someone explain why both the Uber and Lyft stocks are up on this news?
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#393Is there any reason to believe the ride sharing companies won't reorganize their drivers using a similar model to what Amazon uses for their delivery drivers: contract to external firms that employ drivers so the parent entity is absolved of responsibility? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/05/us/amazon-delivery-driver...
Drivers themselves will probably do that, so they can work for multiple riding companies
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#394Earlier quoted context omitted.
...and completing all of those forms flawlessly, as a layperson, lest you open yourself to any number of lawsuits. Just the thought of it makes me nervous. It's why large companies have dedicated staff to dealing with such issues.
This is the weirdest thread I've seen on HN, just pay a little money to Gusto or similar to do this. You are talking about barely any cost to have someone else do it who does it all the time. If you don't have the money to pay $50 bucks then do it yourself and just worry less. The chance you mess up is so low it isn't even a thing.
It's funny because all of these comments are ignoring the thousands of small businesses run by average people that have already solved this problem for over 30 years
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#395All these people making Uber money on the side ... the whole thing was possible in part due to the low friction in (and also complete disregard for) the regulatory environment. I’m in NYC and honestly can’t figure out how to legally hire a studio assistant for a few hours a week without being at risk for any of a number of lawsuit vectors. So I just coil my own cables. And I don’t mentor people who want to learn some…
It doesn't have to be black or white. Why don't regulators make a third category of worker between employee and contractor? Such a policy could reflect what people are already doing and give them some protection against abuse.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#396Earlier quoted context omitted.
...and completing all of those forms flawlessly, as a layperson, lest you open yourself to any number of lawsuits. Just the thought of it makes me nervous. It's why large companies have dedicated staff to dealing with such issues.
This is the weirdest thread I've seen on HN, just pay a little money to Gusto or similar to do this. You are talking about barely any cost to have someone else do it who does it all the time. If you don't have the money to pay $50 bucks then do it yourself and just worry less. The chance you mess up is so low it isn't even a thing.
My partner entered into head of operations at a small company and had to learn all of this stuff on the fly [in Canada].
She's managed just fine as well. I've managed a department previously and had to deal with worker's comp matters and same thing. It's not very difficult to learn. It's a bit of overhead, sure. It's just part of the job of overseeing others.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#397Is there any reason to believe the ride sharing companies won't reorganize their drivers using a similar model to what Amazon uses for their delivery drivers: contract to external firms that employ drivers so the parent entity is absolved of responsibility? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/05/us/amazon-delivery-driver...
Uber has no USP except the network effect. They are just a taxi company with an app essentially (givent that their self driving efforts havn't fruited at all yet). If they outsource the competency of drivers to an external provider then they are just a taxi company with an app and not even their own driver network, making them even more vulnerable to someone else coming with a better app and using the same driver pro…
don't most drivers already work for their competitor as well? they have no "driver network". It was actually one of the good parts of gig work.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#398Earlier quoted context omitted.
It will probably come as a surprise to you (it did me several years ago), that it’s not simply up to you and the company hiring you if you are considered a freelancer. This is not a matter of billable vs guaranteed hours. It’s a classification based on employee control over the person in question. In fact, if you were micro directing the people you paid 1099, you may have had what the state of NY would consider an em…
> It will probably come as a surprise to you (it did me several years ago), that it’s not simply up to you and the company hiring you if you are considered a freelancer. Where do you draw the line? Let's say you hire someone for 3 hours to help you out for a specific task. A "I would like X done with Y" type of scenario. Are they now considered an employee? What if you asked someone to do a code review for 5 hours wh…
Not legal advice but...
Usually in your situation you will have your own computer, your own workspace (except for meetings with the client), and deliver things based on a predefined scope (or predefined set of expectations). That's good enough to make you a freelancer.
On the other hand, if the company told you to use their laptop, show up in their office, work using their methods—effectively manage how you work... that becomes W2 territory.
Taking a step back, you're respecting the spirit of things. The company has a need, you have a solution, y'all have a transaction. On the other hand, if they were to integrate you as part of a team, within their processes, that's a W2.
Of course in practice there's a third way that is common: large company A makes use of an intermediary contracting company B that they can pay as needed[0], and the contractors are W2 salaried of B, while A maintains all their flexibility.
[0] Generally for all the crappy work that they don't want to do themselves. If you find yourself working for B, make it a learning experience and a personal goal to move beyond it.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#399If this actually gets enforced, I predict we'll all be talking about the law of unintended consequences in a year's time.
don't know why this is getting down voted, all of you folks using lyft/uber.. get ready for the prices to double or triple.
Oh no workers will make a reasonable income!
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#400All these people making Uber money on the side ... the whole thing was possible in part due to the low friction in (and also complete disregard for) the regulatory environment. I’m in NYC and honestly can’t figure out how to legally hire a studio assistant for a few hours a week without being at risk for any of a number of lawsuit vectors. So I just coil my own cables. And I don’t mentor people who want to learn some…
The way to protect workers is to shift the burden of health care and other costly benefits onto the government, supported by taxes. Then there is no risk to hiring a new employee beyond the wages you pay them.
The US public does not want this, though, and the war of words over universal health care has led to incredibly deep entrenchment on the side of those opposed. All this despite the mountain of evidence from other countries, showing the greatly reduced total costs and improved life expectancy as well as a lack of bankruptcy and financial ruin for those caught in an emergency.