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‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

politico.com

201–210 of 211 posts

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#201
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was, in fact, Bin laden’s goal. And he failed.

No, his goal was to sow division amongst Americans, and drag us into wars that only benefit private corporations and waste money. https://www.aljazeera.com/archive/2004/11/200849163336457223... "Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there for a repeat of what occurred…

No, his goal was to sow division amongst Americans, and drag us into wars that only benefit private corporations and waste money.

Yes, but what was the end goal? He wasn't doing it just for shits and giggles.

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#202
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually did, joined joined the Air Force 3 years later as soon as I turned 18. Only recently got out after 10 years. I was on holiday at the time with my family, and we saw the first news at at a train station when we were waiting for a connection. It had a tremendous impact on me at the time. Once we got to our hotel, we were glued to the TV 10 hours afterwards, and I can vividly remember the horror of watching r…

That’s awesome! Thank you for your service. What are you up to now? I hear the job market for people with clearance that you likely have is pretty lucrative.

Well I got myself an Information Technology degree and I'm working as a product manager for a Saas product that supports the building industry. Really different environment. I like it, but still miss the Air Force.

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus the family members of passengers whose last conversations with their loved ones ended with some variation of, "we're going to try and rush the cockpit, I have to go". Not only that, but the conspiracy involves the military trying to convince everyone that they were completely unprepared. "We didn't shoot down an airliner, even though that's what anybody with sense would have done in that situation, because our f…

I must admit I had a hard time believing there were no armed alert aircraft ready 24/7 on the tarmac at Andrews AFB on the morning of 9/11. Since the Kennedy assaibation, the US Secret Service pre-secures everywhere the president goes, including armored escort cars snipers on the roofs of buildings. Not having armed aircraft always ready to support Air Force One or Two seemed inconceivable to me. Even in a post-Cold-…

  I had a hard time believing there were no armed alert aircraft ready 24/7
This is precisely the state of "readiness" that had devolved under the previous administration. For one example, this report[0] was published almost exactly one year before the attacks.

[0] https://www.heritage.org/defense/report/the-facts-about-mili...

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the article says that little details like the order of events or where the president was where the parts that folks get wrong. It’s not like I’m going to forget or incorrectly remember that I was in a class at school when it happened and we tuned in live to a TV in a classroom next door that happened to have cable. And how everyone assumed for the first hour or so that it was just this tragic, tragic acciden…

Why would your teachers interrupt class to show you some banal accident? This seems to have happened a lot, according to the comments here. Why on earth would you stop class to show the kids something on TV, ever? Would it not make sense to either send them home due to security concerns, or just finish the school day and let them find out the news later?

Finish the school day? In Eastern US time zone, it was in the morning, and actually started just before class, near the start of the day. Folks had arrived early, somebody heard about it from somebody else and rushed to get a TV so we could watch it live. At the time, it wasn’t entirely determined to be a “banal accident”, it was, well, it was live news more than anything. Everyone was glued to the screen as folks were trying to figure out what was going on. There were reports of a plane off course, and frankly what ran through some people’s minds were, “are we next?” The cellphone grid was strained to capacity not just in New York but just about everywhere, there was this palpable sense that the world had changed in some kind of fundamental way. It hadn’t, not really, but it was a shock.

You know on movies where they show the world ending, or devastation or even the atomic bomb’s aftermath, etc. It was that kind of “I can’t stop watching,” going on, where you know the likelihood it will affect your life directly in a negative way is pretty low, but you want to know more, see what happens next, or if it will affect you too.

It’s maybe a bit different now — we’re overwhelmed with so many information sources that... it’s possible the modern day equivalent is all being on the same Reddit thread or Twitter feed or live stream of an event.

Generally classrooms are meant to be a mixture of real events and things you can learn from them. If I recall correctly, this was an art class, or maybe an English class, but a humanities class of some kind, and so part of the activity was actually meant for conversation afterward. But... it unfolded in a much more dramatic way, and ... I think had there been more evidence that it was a criminal act from the start, we might not have—-ah, well, the use of airplanes as weapons was entirely new. What can I say, it sounds like any other event now, and somehow less shocking than people using IEDs, vehicular homicide, mass shootings or unjust violence, but... it unfolding live in the largest city in the world, the centre of finance, it... was still a horrendous act. The tragedy was only made worse by what followed in “revenge” and the changes to laws that we still live under today. I remember thinking a year previously that there’s no way 1984 could happen as I’d read it, and then I re-read it around a decade later and discovered it had already happened, partly thanks to Prism and other intelligence agency sharing agreements we’d been living under for years. The biggest shame is that folks knew about it in advance and yet we didn’t even have safely locked cockpit doors at the time. Who would have thought that hijackers wouldn’t simply want to send the plane somewhere else but to...

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#205
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was, in fact, Bin laden’s goal. And he failed.

No, his goal was to sow division amongst Americans, and drag us into wars that only benefit private corporations and waste money. https://www.aljazeera.com/archive/2004/11/200849163336457223... "Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there for a repeat of what occurred…

The hope was to bankrupt the US, forcing them to withdraw from the ME (especially Israel and Saudi Arabia), like what basically happened to the Soviets in Afghanistan. This did not happen.

Sure the whole debacle did cost US a lot of money, lives and perhaps prestige. But that does not mean al-Qaeda achieved their goals. The US is for better or worse even more entrenched in the ME, with bases in Afghanistan and Iraq. And Israel and the Saudis are still there.

Some tend to think that anything which is bad for the US means the terrorist are winning, because "they just wants to hurt us". But it doesn't work like that. Terrorism is a tactic employed by certain groups to achieve certain goals. It is possible that both parties are weakened by a conflict.

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#206
post #191
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Al Qaeda believes in a final apocalyptic war between Islam and basically everybody else, ending in a global Islamic Caliphate. Their goal is to provoke that war, which they believe they are already fighting. They just want everybody else to join in.

They didn't really achieve that either.

If at first you don't succeed...

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must admit I had a hard time believing there were no armed alert aircraft ready 24/7 on the tarmac at Andrews AFB on the morning of 9/11. Since the Kennedy assaibation, the US Secret Service pre-secures everywhere the president goes, including armored escort cars snipers on the roofs of buildings. Not having armed aircraft always ready to support Air Force One or Two seemed inconceivable to me. Even in a post-Cold-…

I had a hard time believing there were no armed alert aircraft ready 24/7 This is precisely the state of "readiness" that had devolved under the previous administration. For one example, this report[0] was published almost exactly one year before the attacks. [0] https://www.heritage.org/defense/report/the-facts-about-mili...

Interesting post with a more interesting publication date. The source is of course not known as a neutral publication, but I think it’s pretty clear in hindsight that Clinton gutted the military.

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would your teachers interrupt class to show you some banal accident? This seems to have happened a lot, according to the comments here. Why on earth would you stop class to show the kids something on TV, ever? Would it not make sense to either send them home due to security concerns, or just finish the school day and let them find out the news later?

Finish the school day? In Eastern US time zone, it was in the morning, and actually started just before class, near the start of the day. Folks had arrived early, somebody heard about it from somebody else and rushed to get a TV so we could watch it live. At the time, it wasn’t entirely determined to be a “banal accident”, it was, well, it was live news more than anything. Everyone was glued to the screen as folks we…

It's more that I'm surprised the school would let news take over their schedule. If a tower in NYC is on fire, that doesn't seem to be enough to justify it. When the second plane hits, sure. But even then, if you live far from NYC, why make the kids watch that? I mean are there other events that your teachers would make you watch?

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#209
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, his goal was to sow division amongst Americans, and drag us into wars that only benefit private corporations and waste money. https://www.aljazeera.com/archive/2004/11/200849163336457223... "Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there for a repeat of what occurred…

No, his goal was to sow division amongst Americans, and drag us into wars that only benefit private corporations and waste money. Yes, but what was the end goal? He wasn't doing it just for shits and giggles.

You mean, like the current Shitposter-in-Chief?

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#210
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "war on terror" has served as justification for: - permanent mass surveillance of global communications - total governmental control and visibility into fiat money financial transactions - endless U.S. participation in or support for military campaigns in Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Libya, and Syria, and the concomitant trillions spent on military hardware and services - increasingly lawless privacy intrus…

You make it sound like all this stuff started with "war on terror". The US has been at war (and overthrowing governments) ever since WW2. And I'd be seriously surprised if the government did not have "total visibility" into non-cash financial transactions, phone calls, and internet traffic well before 2001.

Go re-read all the Snowden leaks. Many of those systems (or versions of them) were in operation for at least a decade before 2001.
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