We are looking at more wire tapes being built in California. It makes one wonder whether Cali would implode if Silicon Valley had a rapid decline
California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
261–270 of 754 posts
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
The burden of proof would be on Uber and Lyft to show: (B) The person performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity’s business. This would be a hard sell because Uber and Lyft are in the business of providing transportation to people. They may argue that they're only providing the platform that enables drivers to provide rides, but considering the amount of evidence that says otherwise, I'd like…
Then this won't cover them as people seem to think it does, because the actual driving is not uber's business. They run a market-place in which others operate; the actual driving is indeed outside of the hiring entity's usual business. Regardless, there seems to be an obvious loop-hole for uber lawyers to chase.
The obvious loophole for the businesses to use is to start charging drivers for the service, which makes them customers and not employees.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does it matter who the employees are employed by? All rules for an employer apply just as well for the employing company as they would for Amazon if they employed them directly.
yup it does, just like contractor employees at amazon/google/tech company of choice don't get any of the nice benefits or perks of working at the client company, these guys won't get anything. Those employees can't sue the client company, they can only sue contractor company - that suddenly goes poof and doesn't pay out anything when a dispute happens. Good luck forming a union coz then the company will go poof too I…
That’s partially true. The contract company can’t fully go poof every time there is a minor lawsuit and the company needs to still pay the state all the fees for unemployment and insurance that all companies have to pay. In the end the employees get workman’s comp, min wage and unemployment insurance but the state gets to collect a bunch of fees that they are owed.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#264If this actually gets enforced, I predict we'll all be talking about the law of unintended consequences in a year's time.
Won’t this just mean that Uber hires all their drivers, prevents them from driving on another service, waits for Lyft to die and then raise rates?
no, uber can just do what the taxi companies do, which is to charge the drivers for the service. That way, the drivers are customers and not employees.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does it matter who the employees are employed by? All rules for an employer apply just as well for the employing company as they would for Amazon if they employed them directly.
yup it does, just like contractor employees at amazon/google/tech company of choice don't get any of the nice benefits or perks of working at the client company, these guys won't get anything. Those employees can't sue the client company, they can only sue contractor company - that suddenly goes poof and doesn't pay out anything when a dispute happens. Good luck forming a union coz then the company will go poof too I…
Was Uber beholden to any of that before this? Did they get benefits or perks? Could they form a union? What was their odds of suing Uber?
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
>One medical emergency will end it all. One medical emergency and your credit will be ruined. Wait a seven years without contracting the debt collector and the debt becomes uncollectible. After three years roughly three quarters of the effect on your credit will evaporate. That's what actually happens beyond the hyperbolic political grandstanding. Remember kids, if you get a bill that you can't possibly pay. Don't pa…
Don't the debt collectors start with taking everything you own (money in bank, house, car etc.) first? And after that, they'll take most of your salary, leaving you only enough to physically survive. That's how it works in Poland, by law. The only available loophole is to work illegally till the end your life, so that the collectors can't get their hands on that money.
It would totally depend on where you live. In Canada after 7 years the debt goes away on most debt. But you have to not pay it for 7 years. If you make one payment in that time it starts over. And they will try and beg you even to make a very small payment. Because it starts the clock again. Once you reach the 7 year mark the debt is wiped from your credit and can not be used against you.
Source: Canadian, walked away from my student loan debt after injury, provincial loan was wiped clean federal loan had to be paid off. Student Visa wiped clean. To be clear I could not work and the bills kept getting harder and harder to pay. I was dying with stress and anxiety about bills. So I stopped paying them and bought food instead. I was young and not prepared for emergencies but it was clear I was sinking. I would like to also add this is NOT a great solution if you can avoid it. Responsible spending is. With the debt, for 7 years I could not get a credit card or take out a loan. If my car died I had to buy a new one right now out of pocket for work. It is not good. So though I had about 20000$ in provincial loans wiped it took me over a decade to pay off the rest of my debt. Today I am 100% debt free and even have a few dollars. The difference in stress levels I live day to day are huge I can not understate how much responsible spending with in your means can do for a person.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#267What if I don't want to be an employee?
Can you talk more about why someone wouldn't want it?
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#268All these people making Uber money on the side ... the whole thing was possible in part due to the low friction in (and also complete disregard for) the regulatory environment. I’m in NYC and honestly can’t figure out how to legally hire a studio assistant for a few hours a week without being at risk for any of a number of lawsuit vectors. So I just coil my own cables. And I don’t mentor people who want to learn some…
> I’m in NYC and honestly can’t figure out how to legally hire a studio assistant for a few hours a week without being at risk for any of a number of lawsuit vectors. To my understanding (not a lawyer / accountant) if you hire someone part time like that you're not obligated to pay for their insurance or anything like that. You just write off what you paid them as a business expense and send them a 1099 at the end of…
Also not an accountant or lawyer, but I think that if you're paying someone by the hour, and directing them as to how they should do they job, they need to be classified as an employee, not a contractor.
This means a W2 instead of a 1099, plus you need to pay them on a fixed schedule, pay social security and medicare taxes (and likely other taxes depending on jurisdiction) on their wages, deduct income taxes, do an I-9 verification at the beginning of employment, change your own liability insurance, etc.
There is software as a service companies that help out with setting this up correctly, but I do see many ways you could do this incorrectly, and land yourself in trouble.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my country, working as an Uber driver gets you a good salary. I think it's around 1000€ (minimum wage being less than 500€). Is it different in USA? Do they get less than minimum wage for 8 hours?
According to one analysis [1], working for Uber pays $8.80-$11 per hour (after subtracting car related expenses). The federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr. But certain cities are much higher, for example New York City is $15.00. In San Francisco, it’s $15.59. Also worth mentioning that most of these averages are not taken from drivers working full-time (40 hours per week). So while they may be able to make near minimum w…
Do minimum wage workers typically get the option to get health care?
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#270Can anybody here with proper experience break down the "ABC" test for me? It seems to me like the "C" part (that the work is "part of a company’s regular business") applies to literally any company who would hire a freelancer to work on their product or service.
> applies to literally any company who would hire a freelancer to work on their product or service.
IANAL but I imagine that's exactly the point. There are always incidentals, like let's say you're a restaurant and you need to hire a plumber to fix your toilet or if you're a real estate agent and you need to hire a programmer to do your website.