Earlier quoted context omitted.
They also recently announced plans to hire 3,000+ in Dallas [1] at a brand new massive office. I'm sure the hiring and layoffs are from different business units, but it does seem strange that there's been multiple several-hundred-people-layoff stories form Uber recently at the same time they're announcing otherwise massive hiring expansion. I would at least figure that they would prefer to transfer engineers between…
Interesting if this is a way to get out from under crushing Bay Area tech salaries. I still see zero reason a company like Uber should be based in San Francisco. We landed a man on the moon with parts built all over the United States, so it's not "that's where the talent is".
Uber lays off 435 people
571–580 of 611 posts
Re: Uber lays off 435 people
#572Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Somebody, somewhere, thought "hey, slack is way to expensive, we don't want to get 'locked in', and 'mumble mumble privacy cloud evil stallman' [...] Like I completely agree with your overall point about reckless overengineering, but you also just listed three true and really good reasons to avoid integrating Slack.
I setup an enterprise-grade Mattermost server in a weekend. The hardest part wasn't even Mattermost itself, but getting SMTP working reliably in the age of DKIM/SPF/DMARC policies. This could be sidestepped by using any of the well-established email providers. No reason to use Slack when such options exist, but also no reason to write your own chat app, either.
When OP says they built their own internal chat app, that's not entirely accurate - uChat is built upon Mattermost.
Re: Uber lays off 435 people
#573Earlier quoted context omitted.
Really, 50 maintainers for a 5000 user system? I'd think it scales much better, probably 2-3 people for the whole company. And in that case, it can quickly be cheaper than slack
I think you are really underestimating the bureaucratic overheads in a large company. It is not the same as a 3-person startup serving 5000 customers. Of course I pulled that number out of the air, but the point is that it can make sense. I think I am right around the ballpark of needing a 5 people team to serve 500 users - you'd need a minimum of 3 people just to make sure there is enough redundancy if one person is…
There's no way a company with 5000 Slack users is paying the sticker price per head - they'll call Slack's enterprise sales team and negotiate some volume discount with whatever shiny enterprise-grade features, SLAs, support guarantees, etc. they need.
Re: Uber lays off 435 people
#574Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a worthwhile writeup of how Uber's operating costs are generally higher than the industry it "disrupted" without actually solving the structural problems that industry had found an equilibrium around: https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2019/05/ubers-path-of-des...
I don't know if you've ever taken a taxi before but this is nearly impossible for your statement to be true, simply by considering that the shared rides are more efficient from a common sense point of view. Even if Uber isn't operating with more efficiency right now due to R&D and global expansion, there's no reason why they can't be given that they aren't operated by a guy on a telephone manually dispatching cars.
"Nearly impossible" is a simultaneously weak and strong claim. Let's try to break it down.
It may be useful to distinguish between shared rides and people using Lyft / Uber / X for a single group riding to a single destination. If there are stats on the distribution of number of parties in a single trip for the major providers, that would be a helpful stat. My anecdotal experience is that most rides I've taken and that I've seen others take are not shared, particularly for those on the higher end of the willingness-to-pay spectrum mentioned in the article. (If you're on your way to an important meeting, do you really want to throw in the variability of maybe picking up someone else along the route?) I don't think Lyft and Uber are perceived primarily as shared-ride services -- they originated as alternatives to single-party, single-destination rides. IOW, as direct alternatives to existing taxi service.
In terms of efficiency, please look at the breakdown of costs in the article -- I even excerpted some of those here. The cost of dispatch is actually quite low among the components of costs to run an urban hail-ride fleet. Look at Uber's R&D costs and, even amortized over the anticipated rides, and compare that to "a guy on a telephone." One fully-loaded Uber engineer's salary would pay for tens of full-time dispatchers in N. Amer. / European cities and hundreds of dispatchers where labor costs are lower. Similarly, the costs of fleet operations in terms of cars are going to be higher. Do you think "some driver with an app" can maintain and utilize a vehicle better than a taxi fleet, which can run the car 24/7 and have centralized maintenance facilities and bulk discounts on supplies and fuel? Efficiency considerations need to take into account both the costs and benefits. I think one of the points the article is trying to make is that Uber has been hiding these costs or relying on subsidies from private investors until recently.
One of the broader points the article attempts to make is that urban ride-hail fleets have attempted to optimize for things other than the pure efficiency of the rides. For example, they optimize for serving otherwise underserved areas (where some taxis won't go or won't take you because they're concerned about the unpaid backhaul). They optimize for some driver protections. I think it's useful to consider what is going into any definition of "efficiency." Is it utilization time of the vehicle? (This doesn't account for number of passengers served if the rides are longer because the rides are in suburbs rather than dense urban cores. It also doesn't account for taxis being utilized 24/7 while a privately-operated Uber maybe is operated 14 or so hours / day -- if the driver is willing to push the margins of safety and sanity.) The number of rides per hour? The time it takes per unit of distance? (On that last point, there's some evidence that the rise of uncapped ride-hailing services in urban cores has led to significant traffic increases s.t. it's actually slower to get around now in dense cities precisely because of Uber.) The article attempts to call attention to some of these other possible dimensions of optimization. Depending on which dimensions are optimized and the transportation network, it is entirely possible for "a guy on a telephone" to be more efficient. And questions of fairness -- for drivers, for pedestrians and mass transit riders, and for others -- will be affected by that choice of optimization.
Uber could be profitable at higher prices. But would we just be left with a higher-priced taxi service that significantly decreased fairness?
Re: Uber lays off 435 people
#575Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're totally right that the weekend is valuable, but some people enjoy doing this sort of thing with their free time. It's not anyone's place to decide what anyone else does for entertainment or self improvement. That is to say - what is not valuable to you might be valuable to someone else.
Actually if your leisure activities and your work activities are similar, and you don’t have many interests outside engineering (or finance or law or whatever), then it is the prerogative of others to criticize your lack of well roundedness and insularity.
Re: Uber lays off 435 people
#576Re: Uber lays off 435 people
#577Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Enterprise" slack is $15 per head per month. This would equate to an recurring annual expenditure of nearly $4.86million for Uber's 27000 employees. Given that Slack can be seen as IRC with some pretty decoration glued up to an Elasticsearch instance, and that Uber already has a highly trained tech org in place, if it wants to make a Slack "clone" for less than, say, $25million (cost of Slack to Uber for 5 years), i…
That's assuming that, with 27,000 employees (why does Uber have so many?), monthly licensing fees are not negotiable. Which I would doubt.
Re: Uber lays off 435 people
#578Hello Uber Engineer here! Obviously everything I say is personal experience and opinion. I think the layoffs were long overdue and should've happened sooner. There was a general understanding between my coworkers and I that Uber definitely over hired in 2016. Thanks to that a lot of engineers ran out of things to do which led to political infighting over roadmap, ridiculous redundant resourcing - every single team ha…
Seems like infrastructure/devops always gets short-staffed, presumably due to being considered a cost center. Interesting to hear someone observe this even as they're saying a company "over hired" and "engineers ran out of things to do".
Re: Uber lays off 435 people
#579Hello Uber Engineer here! Obviously everything I say is personal experience and opinion. I think the layoffs were long overdue and should've happened sooner. There was a general understanding between my coworkers and I that Uber definitely over hired in 2016. Thanks to that a lot of engineers ran out of things to do which led to political infighting over roadmap, ridiculous redundant resourcing - every single team ha…
> We even started building and maintaining our own chat app God I love the Not Invented Here disease. Somebody, somewhere, thought "hey, slack is way to expensive, we don't want to get 'locked in', and 'mumble mumble privacy cloud evil stallman' so lets write our own chat application.... how hard can it be?" Boom, now the company is straddled by a shitty, homebrew chat application that is maintained by nobody because…
Re: Uber lays off 435 people
#580Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean there's also the fact that California has pending legislation that seems ready to pass that will kick Uber (and others in the gig economy space) right in the wallet. Next 2 years should be interesting as we see what effect that has on things.
What's funny is that if they were employees then uber would be a lot harder to compete with. As it is now uber drivers will use several apps and often recommend competitors to customers, which they're entitled to do as private contractors.