Cost to get a ride will go up 30%, this will be passed onto to riders . . .
California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
131–140 of 754 posts
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thank you for posting the exact wording of the bill. Which of these three clauses are not satisfied by drivers for a ridesharing company?
The burden of proof would be on Uber and Lyft to show: (B) The person performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity’s business. This would be a hard sell because Uber and Lyft are in the business of providing transportation to people. They may argue that they're only providing the platform that enables drivers to provide rides, but considering the amount of evidence that says otherwise, I'd like…
Also (A) would probably be a big issue, since Uber, Lyft etc. actually do interfere fairly directly with exactly how a driver provides service, even giving them a constantly-updating rating from detailed feedback collected from riders, and manipulating rides sent to drivers to influence what time of day / parts of town they end up working in to satisfy macro level shifts in demand that the larger organization observes.
It takes serious mental gymnastics to say a driver is not simply an employee of the company, in terms of operational workflow. Drivers aren’t going off and figuring out everything (or even hardly anything) about giving rides at their own discretion, or even just with minor intervention from a central dispatch. The whole thing is constantly controlled in lock step by the central dispatch, and Uber, Lyft, etc., employ data scientists and other experts specifically to make it more centrally coordinated based on data.
Frankly the only thing the driver controls is the financial risk of the car itself and clocking in / clocking out overall (though this is also manipulated with incentives).
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
As well as laws like this that recognize the reality of the employment relationship, making these jobs decent requires: - unionization and industry bargaining to get decent wages and conditions - quality social welfare systems (including universal healthcare) so that people aren't afraid of poverty if they get fired/quit/change jobs I've always wondered why there isn't more of an appetite for Medicare for All and uni…
Why doesn't anybody do a startup providing health insurance to the uninsured? Are there too many regulations? Insurance is just a business, it seems to me.
The USA did such a startup. It’s called healthcare.gov, AKA Obamacare. It allows you to get health insurance, without consideration for pre-existing conditions and provides you with significant tax credits to offset the premiums, based on your income.
Most of the policies are high-deductible, which means you’ll end up paying for the “scratches and sniffles” yourself but have a per-year maximum-out-of-pocket that can be planned for.
It’s not perfect but it at least provides an option whereas before if you had any non-trivial pre-existing condition you couldn’t find any insurance at all.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thank you for posting the exact wording of the bill. Which of these three clauses are not satisfied by drivers for a ridesharing company?
The burden of proof would be on Uber and Lyft to show: (B) The person performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity’s business. This would be a hard sell because Uber and Lyft are in the business of providing transportation to people. They may argue that they're only providing the platform that enables drivers to provide rides, but considering the amount of evidence that says otherwise, I'd like…
I’d have to side with Uber and I don’t think their lawyers will have a hard time arguing it. Uber doesn’t own, lease or maintain the vehicles. If the argument is that Uber is a transportation company than how can a transportation company operate if they don’t have any vehicles?
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
The burden of proof would be on Uber and Lyft to show: (B) The person performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity’s business. This would be a hard sell because Uber and Lyft are in the business of providing transportation to people. They may argue that they're only providing the platform that enables drivers to provide rides, but considering the amount of evidence that says otherwise, I'd like…
I’d have to side with Uber and I don’t think their lawyers will have a hard time arguing it. Uber doesn’t own, lease or maintain the vehicles. If the argument is that Uber is a transportation company than how can a transportation company operate if they don’t have any vehicles?
My comment is strictly anecdotal
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
California loves making bandaid state fixes to federal problems, I think this is the wrong way to go. Problem: You need a full-time job at a company to get benefits such as healthcare. Californian solution: Reclassify as many as possible as full-time workers. Problem: USA immigration laws are horribly inflexible. Californian solution: Make it illegal to go after illegal immigrants. I don't think that these passive-ag…
> moving between states as hard as moving between EU countries It depends on the country of origin, but for many, moving between EU countries is about as moving between states is now. There's some bureaucracy to deal with, but it's not like moving between states in the US is hassle free. Most US states require immigrants from other states get a local drivers license and local car registration, which requires multiple…
Can you move to another EU country without a job and receive benefits? If I recall correctly you need a job to be allowed to stay in another country even in EU. I think free movement even without employment is the main reason states can't enact too many benefits in US.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
I often wonder about this cost to the US economy due to a lack of universal health care: how much productivity is lost due to people staying in jobs just for health care, how many businesses not started, etc.
Here in the US I'm personally forgoing health insurance to pursue my craft while developing software on the side for extra income. One medical emergency will end it all. I've often wondered myself if, in a country with universal healthcare, people would be more willing to take risks and start businesses, pursue their art, develop inventions, etc. Would love to see an analysis of the economic cost of not having univer…
>One medical emergency will end it all.
One medical emergency and your credit will be ruined. Wait a seven years without contracting the debt collector and the debt becomes uncollectible. After three years roughly three quarters of the effect on your credit will evaporate. That's what actually happens beyond the hyperbolic political grandstanding.
Remember kids, if you get a bill that you can't possibly pay. Don't pay it. Let it go to collections and pay it for pennies on the dollar (another trick, tell them the most you can pay is $10 a month or something else low. Pay off that debt in 2075) or just wait for it to become uncollectible.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#138If this actually gets enforced, I predict we'll all be talking about the law of unintended consequences in a year's time.
don't know why this is getting down voted, all of you folks using lyft/uber.. get ready for the prices to double or triple.
is this supposed to be an unintended consequence? We all know that the cheap rides of Uber are (partially) the result of them dodging around employer obligations.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is misleading to lump people billing at $100s/hr with drivers, shoppers, dog walkers, etc. But what's the median billing rate for the "gig economy"? Given my experience with consulting, it seems odd to use the "gig" label. But whatever, it did suck to pay ~$1K per month for health insurance.
My thought too. I also did not get the sense that someone who “ended up billing at $300/hr and was still struggling with month to month work is someone who really realized the full cost of self-employment, because that is what he was really doing, employing himself … not “just like you guys” gigs. If you’re billing at $300/hr and working when and how you want, it actually seems immensely disingenuous to try to associ…
> People don’t realize just how much health care costs
The American system costs way more for comparable care, precisely because of our insane system. Every single dollar or hour spent on medical billing issues and dealing with insurance and arguing over who pays is total deadweight loss.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#140They're calling that "Remaking the Gig Economy"? Making Uber and Lyft drivers into employees? What a sham. For 10 years I ran my own consultancy. Every new engagement was a new "job" where I could negotiate the rules of engagement however I deemed fit. Usually lasting no more than 5 days each. Every new month for 10 years I'd think: "this is it, it's over; I have no work scheduled for next month, I'm going to have to…
As an American living in Ontario, Canada for a time, I literally COULD NOT BELIEVE the gig economy there. It is what the US aspires to: a guy owns a snow plow business, employs 30 other gig workers 6mos a year. A woman does city/house hunting tours. Contractors are consistently self-employed. On and on. These folks, earning enough to live, and (to another commentor’s point) without fear of medical bills/issues. That…
Those snowplow workers will likely be employees, not contractors. The Canadian government really frowns on avoidance of payroll taxes.
But due to Medicare etc, it's not that big of a deal whether a worker is a contractor or employee.