Can anybody here with proper experience break down the "ABC" test for me? It seems to me like the "C" part (that the work is "part of a company’s regular business") applies to literally any company who would hire a freelancer to work on their product or service.
California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
71–80 of 754 posts
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your post makes it sound like the gig economy is actually unworkable right now, so the right solution, at least in the short term while we don't have an answer to problem of how to make it workable , would be to make those 'jobs' actual jobs with real benefits.
California loves making bandaid state fixes to federal problems, I think this is the wrong way to go. Problem: You need a full-time job at a company to get benefits such as healthcare. Californian solution: Reclassify as many as possible as full-time workers. Problem: USA immigration laws are horribly inflexible. Californian solution: Make it illegal to go after illegal immigrants. I don't think that these passive-ag…
> California loves making bandaid state fixes to federal problems, I think this is the wrong way to go.
You just hit the nail on the head. The real problem is that California is grossly under-represented in government, thanks to the founding fathers and gerrymandering. We have to slap together these hacks because otherwise we would wait centuries to get any real change out of the Fed.
As for "USA's democracy", screw the USA and its' democracy. As a Californian, I care about California's democracy, not the GOP's federalist plutocracy.
Republikans look at California as a rich man to mug who won't fight back. These laws are how we fight back. The USA needs us, we don't need them.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#73This is more about the state collecting more taxes than actually helping workers, especially with ride-sharing drivers used as bait.
People can already be full-time drivers if they wanted. Those jobs have existed for a century. In reality, the vast majority of Uber/lyft drivers already have a FT job and drive for secondary income with the time and location of their choosing. Retirees, students, fixed income, disabled, and many others who are just supporting their families.
Shifting them to employee status will cut many supporting incomes while adding a few more driving jobs with strict conditions, basic benefits and bare minimum hours. Many more will suffer than gain (if any). Another case of California having some of the worst politics in the nation.
For those downvoting, I would like to know what exactly you disagree with here.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your post makes it sound like the gig economy is actually unworkable right now, so the right solution, at least in the short term while we don't have an answer to problem of how to make it workable , would be to make those 'jobs' actual jobs with real benefits.
California loves making bandaid state fixes to federal problems, I think this is the wrong way to go. Problem: You need a full-time job at a company to get benefits such as healthcare. Californian solution: Reclassify as many as possible as full-time workers. Problem: USA immigration laws are horribly inflexible. Californian solution: Make it illegal to go after illegal immigrants. I don't think that these passive-ag…
I disagree with your assertions as healthcare is not the sole motivation, since massive Medicaid expansion has already taken care of that problem. The bigger issue really is that companies are not paying into unemployment, medicare, SSN and skirting around minimum wage by claiming everyone is a contractor.
As for immigration, the main issue that is that many California families are a mix of American citizens and illegal aliens that have lived here for decades
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
It will be an interesting case study for sure. I think we can expect fewer drivers, mandatory time slots, and capped 40 hour weeks. Prices should go up to cover all of it, and both Uber/Lyft are cheeky enough to separate that line item as a “CA Tax Recovery Fee” or some such. Probably will be better off for those making it their living, worse for those looking for extra income. It’s going to be harder on all the othe…
30 hours is the threshold for “full time” worker if you’re determining eligibility for health insurance. No way Uber will offer health insurance to drivers, so guessing hours would be capped at 30 max per week. I would think the exact opposite...in this scenario drivers who do this part time anyway are fine but anyone driving more than 30 hours a week will be hosed.
not only will they cap it as you have said, but generally you aren't allowed to be employed by multiple employers. almost every driver drives for both companies. the drivers are going to get shafted here in total earnings. they will work fewer hours and make more per hour, but won't be able to drive crazy hours on both apps any more.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
California already has among the most generous state-level medical benefits in the country. Here, it's hard to be in a situation in which one simultaneously can't afford insurance and doesn't qualify for Medicare or Medi-Cal (California Medicaid). Singling out California for not taking the unprecedented step of rolling out single-payer alone--which is a difficult proposition to say the least in a country that guarant…
Well, I would assume they offer healthcare to people who are working or are disabled and not able to work. It's not like you get healthcare in Europe for not putting anything back in the system. Freedom of movement is not a problem in this case.
You are full of it. Germany, for instance, (and other European nations are similar) puts so many barriers in the way of a disabled immigrant that they'll never end up a resident.
You're telling me if I were disabled and could not work I could just move to Europe and live on the healthcare system? That's not at all true.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#77It seems pretty clear that the Governor is going to sign the bill, so this is going to be a pretty big deal. The law wouldn't take effect until the beginning of next year, and in that time Uber, Lyft, and Doordash will have collectively spent $90 million on a ballot prop campaign to exempt them from the law. Not looking forward to all the ads, but I will be curious where the money comes from on the other side.
The money comes from lobbyists for previous incumbents in those industries, like legacy taxi, hotel, restaurant... businesses. Those legacy businesses also tend to have stronger Union bases
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
The ad spend can undo this in November 2020. Ballot propositions can't be undone by the legislature or governor.
That seems exceedingly unlikely to occur, regardless of ad spend, in a state as progressive politically as California (similar to AirBnB’s tone deaf failed ad campaign in San Francisco). This assumes gig companies haven’t exhausted their runway by then. Humorously, Uber and Lyft thought they might extinguish taxis if they waited them out long enough, and then the California government did the same to them.
Being profoundly unqualified to evaluate legislation, the electorate is highly susceptible to well-crafted advertising on ballot measures and can easily end up voting for something that they don't philosophically agree with.
This is why direct democracy is generally considered a failed concept and why California's state administration is generally considered a failure, propped up only by the nearly incomprehensible amount of wealth generated in the state.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Drivers will simply split their time between Uber and lyft like they do already.
You can bet your bottom dollar that as employees drivers will be afforded no freedom to double dip. The only reason they are able to at the moment is because companies held back on initiatives that they feared would classify drivers into employees. Now they will have no such fear and gig work will be strictly controlled. Prices will go up simply due to the loss of efficiency from multiplexing gain that gig work provi…
Prices up, sorry consumers.
total earnings down, sorry full time drivers.
hourly earnings up, yay part time drivers.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#80Why so many carve-outs? The law should apply to all industries. Exploitation in some cannot be allowed simply because it's been going on longer.