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California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

nytimes.com

61–70 of 754 posts

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ad spend can undo this in November 2020. Ballot propositions can't be undone by the legislature or governor.

I saw ballots bypassed by the jegislature and the governor multiple times in MA. Ianal so no idea about the technicalities.

California is not Massachusetts.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#62
post #19

These "gig" companies are all unprofitable. Their current business models are consumer-friendly as they try to capture market share, so people mostly love them. But they are not sustainable, the prices will eventually have to go up or become a worse deal in some other way. They are just hoping to use all that cash to stumble into some kind of monopoly or lock-in that eventually removes customer choice. They are not g…

Killing Uber and Lyft outright means bringing back the taxi industry, which isn't better for anyone except the cab companies. The biggest benefit of ride sharing for me isn't that it's cheap: it's that I don't have to awkwardly assert my legal right to use a credit card every single time I ride. I'm fine with paying more to ensure drivers are earning a living wage.

I'm not saying that they are not convenient, I'm saying they're unsustainable. Eventually they either will be more expensive or less convenient. The question is how much they can reconfigure society to their advantage in the meantime. For example, their price dumping is causing some governments to cut mass transit funding which will have long term consequences.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#63
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drivers will simply split their time between Uber and lyft like they do already.

I don’t think it’s that simple. What is considered “work hours”? I assume it’s whenever the app is turned on and you are looking for fares, not just when you have someone in your car. I think a lot of drivers who use both have both apps turned on simultaneously? This would probably mean that you’d only be able turn on one at a time, which might mean fewer trips per hour. Another interesting consequence is potential t…

If they have to be paid minimum wage I think uber will be playing a much more direct role in setting their work hours, not just whenever the app is turned on. They probably can't prevent them from taking a second job but they can prevent them from doing their second job when they're on the clock of the first. This actually solves a common complaint lately of drivers cancelling one ride while they pick up someone on another service.

> Another interesting consequence is potential to introduce stricter employment contracts that might say you can’t drive for a competitor...

This aspect is good for uber, there are many ride sharing apps now and drivers will flick between them and uber has zero competitive advantage. As private contractors they're free to recommend others to clients and this will go away. Bootstrapping competitors will be much harder.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#64
So what's actually going to happen? I'm still confused.

Ridesharing drivers will now be paid wages, not based on the time that they have a passenger? Will the ridesharing service have to pay for the cars and their maintenance?

From the article, it seem the only effect is that drivers are going to be scheduled in advance, and flexibility is going to be decreased.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#65
post #27

Workers have no choice but to get W2 status to get health care insurance, retirement compensation, etc. And they fix it by simply moving them as FT employees, because to the State of California that's the easiest thing they can do. Single-payer free healthcare for all - which is the right thing to do is too much for the State. This is just how bad the State of California is being run.

California already has among the most generous state-level medical benefits in the country. Here, it's hard to be in a situation in which one simultaneously can't afford insurance and doesn't qualify for Medicare or Medi-Cal (California Medicaid). Singling out California for not taking the unprecedented step of rolling out single-payer alone--which is a difficult proposition to say the least in a country that guarant…

Well, I would assume they offer healthcare to people who are working or are disabled and not able to work. It's not like you get healthcare in Europe for not putting anything back in the system. Freedom of movement is not a problem in this case.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#66
post #27

Workers have no choice but to get W2 status to get health care insurance, retirement compensation, etc. And they fix it by simply moving them as FT employees, because to the State of California that's the easiest thing they can do. Single-payer free healthcare for all - which is the right thing to do is too much for the State. This is just how bad the State of California is being run.

California already has among the most generous state-level medical benefits in the country. Here, it's hard to be in a situation in which one simultaneously can't afford insurance and doesn't qualify for Medicare or Medi-Cal (California Medicaid). Singling out California for not taking the unprecedented step of rolling out single-payer alone--which is a difficult proposition to say the least in a country that guarant…

Several countries in the EU (e.g. Nordic countries) offer single-payer healthcare services and the EU does have freedom of movement, so such a step wouldn't really be "unprecedented".

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#67

Does this mean drivers will need working visas? If so, it will drastically reduce the number of drivers.

Unlikely, California is a "Sanctuary State" and essentially has no enforcement of state (or federal) laws governing "illegal" employment. If anything, they consider it to be a good thing.

Even though California is much more lax on immigration, undocumented immigrants that work here still work "illegally". And I-9 Audits are conducted by ICE, not California.

Like SpicyLemonZest said, it sounds extremely unlikely that Uber and Lyft, being public, would risk filing fraudulent I-9s.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#68
post #22

Does anyone know how this will effect Google contractors? Seems like they'd have to make them employees under this ABC test.

The law explicitly mentions "independent contractors", not contractors in general.

Oh interesting. So there'll be a rise in the drivers I had recently who work for a dude who gives them the car to use. Just a little more paperwork.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#69
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30 hours is the threshold for “full time” worker if you’re determining eligibility for health insurance. No way Uber will offer health insurance to drivers, so guessing hours would be capped at 30 max per week. I would think the exact opposite...in this scenario drivers who do this part time anyway are fine but anyone driving more than 30 hours a week will be hosed.

Drivers will simply split their time between Uber and lyft like they do already.

You can bet your bottom dollar that as employees drivers will be afforded no freedom to double dip. The only reason they are able to at the moment is because companies held back on initiatives that they feared would classify drivers into employees. Now they will have no such fear and gig work will be strictly controlled. Prices will go up simply due to the loss of efficiency from multiplexing gain that gig work provided the economy. California never fails to take every opportunity to reduce market efficiency.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#70
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30 hours is the threshold for “full time” worker if you’re determining eligibility for health insurance. No way Uber will offer health insurance to drivers, so guessing hours would be capped at 30 max per week. I would think the exact opposite...in this scenario drivers who do this part time anyway are fine but anyone driving more than 30 hours a week will be hosed.

Perhaps this will encourage tech companies to recognize access to health services as a basic human right. I look forward to day when corporations support universal health care from purely selfish grounds: if government takes care of employee's health, companies won't have to deal with it, or worry whether driver crosses the threshold of working over 30 hours a week.

You have a right to health (as in nobody can stop you from being healthy). Healthcare is a service that others provide and can't really be a human right.

A better healthcare system requires the government to do something rather than an individual corporation. In fact it's the tight coupling of healthcare to employment that makes it such a nightmare already, and companies are not against a more universal system because it would greatly reduce costs and overhead.

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