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California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

nytimes.com

51–60 of 754 posts

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#51

Does this mean drivers will need working visas? If so, it will drastically reduce the number of drivers.

Unlikely, California is a "Sanctuary State" and essentially has no enforcement of state (or federal) laws governing "illegal" employment. If anything, they consider it to be a good thing.

Sure, but I can't imagine Uber and Lyft would file fraudulent I-9s whether or not California cares.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#52
post #30
post #22

Does anyone know how this will effect Google contractors? Seems like they'd have to make them employees under this ABC test.

I think most of those contractors are full time employees, just not of google. Generally they work for the staffing company as full time employees, which then places them at google

It's the same at Microsoft and Amazon. In order to work as a contractor, we need to be represented by a managed service, or a preferred vendor. Some vendors offer benefits, others will give you more money for less of their "service". There is some benefit to having it run like this (E&O insurance, quarterly taxes, group health care).

If you are a contractor, make sure you shop around for managed services. There are transparent vendors out there and some willing to show you their cut (although not many).

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#53
post #27

Workers have no choice but to get W2 status to get health care insurance, retirement compensation, etc. And they fix it by simply moving them as FT employees, because to the State of California that's the easiest thing they can do. Single-payer free healthcare for all - which is the right thing to do is too much for the State. This is just how bad the State of California is being run.

California already has among the most generous state-level medical benefits in the country. Here, it's hard to be in a situation in which one simultaneously can't afford insurance and doesn't qualify for Medicare or Medi-Cal (California Medicaid). Singling out California for not taking the unprecedented step of rolling out single-payer alone--which is a difficult proposition to say the least in a country that guarant…

I agree with you, but I have to correct myself as well. I mean compare US to other countries where national free health care is available. These are basic human rights which simply ignord by the government in the US.

Workers need benefits which is understandable because they can't even go to doctors when they are sick.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#54
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30 hours is the threshold for “full time” worker if you’re determining eligibility for health insurance. No way Uber will offer health insurance to drivers, so guessing hours would be capped at 30 max per week. I would think the exact opposite...in this scenario drivers who do this part time anyway are fine but anyone driving more than 30 hours a week will be hosed.

Drivers will simply split their time between Uber and lyft like they do already.

I don’t think it’s that simple. What is considered “work hours”? I assume it’s whenever the app is turned on and you are looking for fares, not just when you have someone in your car.

I think a lot of drivers who use both have both apps turned on simultaneously? This would probably mean that you’d only be able turn on one at a time, which might mean fewer trips per hour.

Another interesting consequence is potential to introduce stricter employment contracts that might say you can’t drive for a competitor...

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#55

Gig economy workers are neither contractors nor employees. They're something in-between. They are neither a square peg nor a round peg. They're a triangle. Forcing a triangular peg through either a round hole or a square hole is wrong. We need a new, third type of classification.

I have to agree. The rideshare companies have given a lot of self-serving commentary, but they made one very good point: if the legislature believes on principle that everyone deserves the benefits and protections of being an employee, how come they wrote so many carveouts? It really seems like an implicit admission that the ABC test isn't quite right.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#56
post #25

They're calling that "Remaking the Gig Economy"? Making Uber and Lyft drivers into employees? What a sham. For 10 years I ran my own consultancy. Every new engagement was a new "job" where I could negotiate the rules of engagement however I deemed fit. Usually lasting no more than 5 days each. Every new month for 10 years I'd think: "this is it, it's over; I have no work scheduled for next month, I'm going to have to…

As well as laws like this that recognize the reality of the employment relationship, making these jobs decent requires:

  - unionization and industry bargaining to get decent wages and conditions
  - quality social welfare systems (including universal healthcare) so that people aren't afraid of poverty if they get fired/quit/change jobs
I've always wondered why there isn't more of an appetite for Medicare for All and universal healthcare on this site. How many people would like to do a startup but don't because they'd have no health insurance?

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#58
post #28
post #25

They're calling that "Remaking the Gig Economy"? Making Uber and Lyft drivers into employees? What a sham. For 10 years I ran my own consultancy. Every new engagement was a new "job" where I could negotiate the rules of engagement however I deemed fit. Usually lasting no more than 5 days each. Every new month for 10 years I'd think: "this is it, it's over; I have no work scheduled for next month, I'm going to have to…

Your post makes it sound like the gig economy is actually unworkable right now, so the right solution, at least in the short term while we don't have an answer to problem of how to make it workable , would be to make those 'jobs' actual jobs with real benefits.

California loves making bandaid state fixes to federal problems, I think this is the wrong way to go.

Problem: You need a full-time job at a company to get benefits such as healthcare.

Californian solution: Reclassify as many as possible as full-time workers.

Problem: USA immigration laws are horribly inflexible.

Californian solution: Make it illegal to go after illegal immigrants.

I don't think that these passive-aggressive fixes are good for USA's democracy. Either we need to split up the country into more manageable chunks and make moving between states as hard as moving between EU countries or we need to accept the intent of federal laws. Otherwise we will just end up in an ever escalating war of dumb bills to counteract the other sides dumb bills.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#59
post #25

They're calling that "Remaking the Gig Economy"? Making Uber and Lyft drivers into employees? What a sham. For 10 years I ran my own consultancy. Every new engagement was a new "job" where I could negotiate the rules of engagement however I deemed fit. Usually lasting no more than 5 days each. Every new month for 10 years I'd think: "this is it, it's over; I have no work scheduled for next month, I'm going to have to…

The lesson here is for Uber drivers to realize it can't be a career, and quit, just like you did. I don't believe they're being compelled or misled into driving for Uber/Lyft.

Additionally, mass exodus of drivers from Uber/Lyft will compel those companies to increase rates

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#60

Well, RIP to the Gig economy hopefully robots get here soon. Cause I can't see the market surviving this.

I am also enthusiastic about robots and doubtful about "the market surviving this".

But what happens to people when the robots have all of the jobs?

People think it's not going to affect them because their job is special. It's just a matter of a few years difference, everyone's job will be affected. Even computer programming.

Why am I so sure about this? Because there is a very large research effort going on aimed at AGI and they _are_ making progress. And the potential rewards are enormous. And the hardware capability is available now.

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