Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties • Hacker News Board

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#761

Post by dang » Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 5:35 PM UTC

AndrewBissell wrote: post #656

paganel wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marvin Minsky was directly named by one of the victims in documents that were published a couple of days before Epatein’s convenient death, and those documents were mentioning that Minsky had directly sexually profited from an under-age woman. In other words he was a paedophile. I submitted an article detailing all this stuff on the day of Epstein’s death, it had reached the top links of HN in less than an hour but t…

I have also noticed HN mods engaged in blatantly political flagging, probably driven by deference to YC's tech industry pals. My link to the Bloomberg article about all the WeWork CEO's utterly scammy self-dealing shot to #1 on the front page, then was flagged by mods as "dupe" even though another link to the article was nowhere to be found. Totally killed off the discussion.

You've noticed no such thing. Users flagging one of your submissions isn't "mods engaged in blatantly political flagging".

The WeWork story has had numerous huge threads—two major ones have been on the front page today alone. With suppression like this, who needs promotion? Ditto for the Epstein story, our only relation to which is nausea and a desire to hold it at the end of a stick, same as everybody else.

Please use the HN search box that appears at the bottom of every HN page and you'll have no trouble finding the major discussions that you're claiming don't exist here.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#762

Post by csallen » Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 7:33 PM UTC

cwkoss wrote: post #737

csallen wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you aware that Pinker has flown on the "Lolita Express" (1) This happened in 2002, (2) Pinker didn't know Epstein personally at the time and the ticket was booked by his literary agent, (3) the flight was to a science-related event in California and included other scientists who were also booked by the same literary agent. Simply saying, "Pinker has flown on the Lolita Express" and leaving it at that is an inte…

Alan Dershowitz tends to deny the accusations with unnatural lawyerly wording and odd personal attacks - this has led me to adjust my priors so now I suspect there is a >50% chance that Dershowitz is a pedophile rapist. Pinker being close to Dershowitz is a red flag to me.

The world is full of defense attorneys. They play a necessary role in our legal system, and I would generally hope that they defend their clients with zeal. This doesn't make them noble and good by any means.

But to claim that a defense lawyer being lawyerly means they are >50% likely to have committed the same crime as their client is questionable, to say the least.

The human tendency to direct our ire and malice in an ever-outwardly expanding circle of blame-by-association is exactly what feeds lynch mobs.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#763

Post by cwkoss » Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 10:23 PM UTC

csallen wrote: post #762

cwkoss wrote: post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alan Dershowitz tends to deny the accusations with unnatural lawyerly wording and odd personal attacks - this has led me to adjust my priors so now I suspect there is a >50% chance that Dershowitz is a pedophile rapist. Pinker being close to Dershowitz is a red flag to me.

The world is full of defense attorneys. They play a necessary role in our legal system, and I would generally hope that they defend their clients with zeal. This doesn't make them noble and good by any means. But to claim that a defense lawyer being lawyerly means they are >50% likely to have committed the same crime as their client is questionable, to say the least. The human tendency to direct our ire and malice in…

I'm talking specifically about the allegations that Dershowitz committed rape, not his actions as a defense lawyer.

I encourage you to read his statements and decide for yourself whether his refutation is credible - I find his insinuation that the accuser was attempting to extort him implausible.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#764

Post by AndrewBissell » Wed, Sep 11, 2019, 4:36 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #761

AndrewBissell wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have also noticed HN mods engaged in blatantly political flagging, probably driven by deference to YC's tech industry pals. My link to the Bloomberg article about all the WeWork CEO's utterly scammy self-dealing shot to #1 on the front page, then was flagged by mods as "dupe" even though another link to the article was nowhere to be found. Totally killed off the discussion.

You've noticed no such thing. Users flagging one of your submissions isn't "mods engaged in blatantly political flagging". The WeWork story has had numerous huge threads—two major ones have been on the front page today alone. With suppression like this, who needs promotion? Ditto for the Epstein story, our only relation to which is nausea and a desire to hold it at the end of a stick, same as everybody else. Please u…

If only Reid Hoffman, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Sergey Brin, and Jeff Bezos had demonstrated a similar desire for remove from Jeffrey Epstein, maybe this forum wouldn't have to grapple with an avalanche of headlines about Epstein's close ties to the tech industry, but alas.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#765

Post by Bendingo » Wed, Sep 11, 2019, 9:33 AM UTC

areoform wrote: post #364

This is gossip, but it’s well founded gossip as I am one or two hops away from him. Epstein was very upfront with the people he worked what that he liked “young woman” while giving them money and invited them to his parties etc. I think it was his way to enmesh them and make them unwitting partners in his systemic abuse. Most people just went along, and were eventually given a massage from a child at his behest to fu…

> Donald Trump famously applauded it in 2002

Excuse me, but noting something, is not the same as applauding it.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#766

Post by dang » Wed, Sep 11, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

AndrewBissell wrote: post #764

dang wrote: post #761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've noticed no such thing. Users flagging one of your submissions isn't "mods engaged in blatantly political flagging". The WeWork story has had numerous huge threads—two major ones have been on the front page today alone. With suppression like this, who needs promotion? Ditto for the Epstein story, our only relation to which is nausea and a desire to hold it at the end of a stick, same as everybody else. Please u…

If only Reid Hoffman, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Sergey Brin, and Jeff Bezos had demonstrated a similar desire for remove from Jeffrey Epstein, maybe this forum wouldn't have to grapple with an avalanche of headlines about Epstein's close ties to the tech industry, but alas.

There would be an avalanche of Epstein stories anyway. The tech angle just adds to it.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#767

Post by nullc » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 10:29 PM UTC

DoctorOetker wrote: post #755

nullc wrote: post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then 2002 Minsky can only conclude Epstein (as the organizer) welcomed the underage girls, or else Epstein (as the organizer) would have thrown them out. It's on an island, it's not a small town music concert where girls can jump the fence to skip entrance fees... Aside, It's a tangent because what happened to the victim was crap regardless of their age... But, the conference referred to was in April 2002, and the…

>...the victim was born in August 1983, so they were of age at that time How do you go from " the victim", to " they were of age"? You are replying to a comment that does not name a specific victim, the comment questions Minsky's choice to have his AI conferences repeatedly held on an island with groups of unsupervised underage girls, with pictures of topless underage girls scattered around the compound: https://abcn…

The public discussion about Minsky stems directly from a particular deposition that mentions him, without it I don't believe there would be any more discussion of Minksky+JE than there is of, say, Hawking+JE. This same deposition is what is discussed in the article Benford commented on.

I acknowledged the possibility that there were separate incidents at other times from what Benford mentioned, as well ("it's always possible that there were other earlier interactions, but that's pure speculation and I don't see why anyone should assume such a thing unless someone makes some kind of accusation of it")-- but was pointing out that if it was a was assumed up thread then she would have been of age at the time. From the description in her depo, she would have been a victim regardless of her age.

I've preferred to avoid using her name gratitiously because having idiotic internet discussions showing up in searches forever utterly sucks-- it can feel violating, with the public assuming ownership of your identity against your will.

I was of the impression that it was absolutely clear what depositions we were talking about-- I don't see how you could think it was anything else. Unless I missed something, the only other mention of Minsky in the depositions was a pilot that listed him as a person that was brought to/from the island.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#768

Post by nullc » Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 9:29 AM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #137

nullc wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how that happens, like what would have caused them to take notice and add him to a list? In part, I wonder if it has any connection to Gregory Benford's description of Minsky's interaction with Epstein: https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/339725/

I'm just spitballing here, but if someone is involved in delivering millions of dollars' worth of donations to you, it would be reasonable to perform a basic background check on them, just to guard against huge potential PR problems. I doubt that they do the same over, say, $500 donations from random people, but once you're into the millions of dollars, you really need to know who you're dealing with. Background chec…

So! There have been some interesting updates:

* https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614299/mit-media-lab-jeff...

Apparently "disqualified" status was a flag in their CRM essentially just meant "don't bother trying to cold call this person", usually set after three failed attempts to fund-raise from them. It in no way signaled any kind of prohibition on fundraising, and only available to development staff in any case. The whole tangent was essentially spurious and signified nothing except that his donations weren't coming in through fundraising cold calls.

But the real shocker is:

* https://president.mit.edu/speeches-writing/preliminary-fact-...

Media Lab's acceptance of donations from Epstein was known and approved by senior staff in MIT administration, the president even sent a thank you letter. The Media Lab had been directed by the administration to keep Epstein's donation's anonymous to avoid him using MIT for publicity or to enhance his own reputation.

So this whole idea that Ito was demonstrating mens rea by concealing his actions from the administration appears to be completely false. I find it shocking that MIT took a week to clarify this point.

I'd say I told you so-- but I didn't know, it just sounded a little suspect to me. Your alternative understanding also sounded reasonable enough...

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#769

Post by reifwithfraud » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 3:04 AM UTC

Folks should remember that Rafael Reif was the provost under Susan Hockfield who orchestrated the whitewashing of research misconduct allegations that MIT Professor Ted Postol launched against MIT Lincoln Laboratory for using fabricated data to report results of a critical ballistic missile defense test to the Pentagon. MIT was found "guiltless" by Provost Reif after an "internal investigation" was conducted over the course of almost a decade. Steve Weiner (a highly respected former director of ballistic defense research at Lincoln for almost 20 years) has since accused MIT of engaging in a "kickback scheme" whereby Lincoln would tell the MDA whatever it needed to hear about the viability of a Starwars-inspired missile defense shield in order for executives at Raytheon to receive multi-billion dollar contracts to build it. The phony missile defense tests that Postol challenged intensely for almost a decade were one small but critical piece of the massive fraud that MIT has perpetrated against the United States taxpayer here. President Reif needs to be incarcerated, not just fired!

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#770

Post by totalZero » Sat, Sep 14, 2019, 4:44 PM UTC

throwaway2048 wrote: post #411

totalZero wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's such a bizarre concept. Morality isn't something that can be inherited by accepting research contributions, in my book. Why taint the money, when it can help us learn, build, heal, and grow? Epstein, not the money he donated, is responsible for bad things he did. As an alum, I'm not surprised at the Institute's cowardice, but I'd like to see MIT stand up for someone, ANYONE in its community when under fire pub…

So what happens when Epstein wants special access? His entire trade was influence peddling (usually by means of inducing people to commit sex crimes), the dude is going to want access to people. He donates 2 million dollars, threatens to pull the funding when you don't let him visit. What happens? If you think its anything besides "welcome with full access" I don't what to tell you, because that's whats going to happ…

If Donald Trump can invite the Taliban to Camp David, I think MIT can have meetings with a donor who is a felon. As long as MIT doesn't engage in illegal activity, I don't see the problem. Public opinion of Epstein is the public's business, not MIT's.