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Uber lays off 435 people

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Re: Uber lays off 435 people

#461
post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Somebody, somewhere, thought "hey, slack is way to expensive, we don't want to get 'locked in', and 'mumble mumble privacy cloud evil stallman' [...] Like I completely agree with your overall point about reckless overengineering, but you also just listed three true and really good reasons to avoid integrating Slack.

Sure but like, run Mattermost or Lync or an XMPP server with apps pre-built for it... don't build your own system. Just a waste of effort.

They were a bunch of bored engineers... they weren’t thinking straight!

Re: Uber lays off 435 people

#462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We even started building and maintaining our own chat app God I love the Not Invented Here disease. Somebody, somewhere, thought "hey, slack is way to expensive, we don't want to get 'locked in', and 'mumble mumble privacy cloud evil stallman' so lets write our own chat application.... how hard can it be?" Boom, now the company is straddled by a shitty, homebrew chat application that is maintained by nobody because…

How do you explain Amazon, then? They invented AWS to sell books on the Internet. The real issue here is a lack of vision at the top. The current CEO needs to step down for the health of the company. He has a clear lack of vision for the company, as evidenced by his statement of "do your divisions look like what they should if we had to start over?" Who says that? Something so vague that is basically grasping at stra…

You're correct that Amazon does NIH correctly and most companies do not. Amazon's pipelines and web (especially frontend) tech at scale is leagues ahead of the 'market'. However, very few people are able to appreciate this, so it's best to not even mention it on a forum like HN.

Re: Uber lays off 435 people

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We even started building and maintaining our own chat app God I love the Not Invented Here disease. Somebody, somewhere, thought "hey, slack is way to expensive, we don't want to get 'locked in', and 'mumble mumble privacy cloud evil stallman' so lets write our own chat application.... how hard can it be?" Boom, now the company is straddled by a shitty, homebrew chat application that is maintained by nobody because…

Heh, this is the story of how Slack got built. Slack was built as an internal tool while building Glitch, an online game. From Wikipedia: > Slack began as an internal tool for Stewart Butterfield's company Tiny Speck during the development of Glitch, a defunct online game.[13][14] "Slack" is an acronym for "Searchable Log of All Conversation and Knowledge.

Fun fact: Tiny Speck was actually Stewart Butterfield's second game company.

His first game company also didn't do well, so they pivoted to release Flickr.

Re: Uber lays off 435 people

#464

Hello Uber Engineer here! Obviously everything I say is personal experience and opinion. I think the layoffs were long overdue and should've happened sooner. There was a general understanding between my coworkers and I that Uber definitely over hired in 2016. Thanks to that a lot of engineers ran out of things to do which led to political infighting over roadmap, ridiculous redundant resourcing - every single team ha…

> We even started building and maintaining our own chat app God I love the Not Invented Here disease. Somebody, somewhere, thought "hey, slack is way to expensive, we don't want to get 'locked in', and 'mumble mumble privacy cloud evil stallman' so lets write our own chat application.... how hard can it be?" Boom, now the company is straddled by a shitty, homebrew chat application that is maintained by nobody because…

I think this could be one of the reasons for Uber pulling out Twilio. Someone must have said 'hey we will build our own telephony suite .. '. I wonder how that has panned out.

Re: Uber lays off 435 people

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought of Electron as a way to kick out a minimum viable product quickly before writing native versions. But nope, I guess give a $16 billion company 4 years and 1600 employees and that's still not feasible.

Electron gets a lot of hate on HN. I get it. But IMHO the existence of VSC (Visual Studio Code) -- as an extraordinarily useful, powerful, compelling cross-platform application -- serves as the only counterexample needed to puncture the "it sucks bc it's Electron" trope.

It can absolutely still be useful, and it would make sense for an early stage startup or someone's side project to use it so they're not duplicating work porting it to .NET, Cocoa and Qt or whatever. And sure, having an identical look and feel everywhere is nice. But with all the resources that Slack and Microsoft have, they need to publish a lengthy guide for the users to deal with their performance problems [1]? They take 22 seconds to load a 6 MB XML file [2]? Ehhh... it's not asking that much of a multi-billion dollar company. You deserve better!

[1] https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/wiki/Performance-Issues

[2] https://github.com/jhallen/joes-sandbox/tree/master/editor-p...

Re: Uber lays off 435 people

#466
post #433

I don't know the details of this situation and Uber is far from a healthy company, but I don't like that layoffs are always a sign of a company in peril in Silicon Valley. 1) This is a public company with shareholders. If they think they can cut costs without hurting their revenue outlook that's not a bad idea! 2) We all know that interviews for engineers in SV suck ... So why can't you fire someone if you make a mis…

> I work at a company (Google) where the prevailing assumption is that if a team is not getting enough done it should ask for more engineers.

What I'm finding at Google is that whenever a team takes longer than 2 quarters to do pretty much anything, that's considered some kind of "problem" that needs to be "fixed." Sometimes the problem is that the technical challenge really needs more than 2 quarters to be adequately addressed. And yes, the first instinct is to ask for more headcount. But often times the problem is also with the headcount you have, not the headcount you don't have.

What is usually needed is to get rid of the TLM who got into a management position through the IC track because of the collective delusion that someone who has worked their way up to Senior or Staff SWE by writing dank design docs and uber code (often in vast quantities) has also acquired senior engineering management competency.

Once you've hired somebody who has significant education and/or experience with engineering management is managing the team, the next thing for that person to do is figure out how to increase the health and effectiveness of the team they have. You might even need to reorg to get the team size down to 7-10. In the process you need to give the team a couple more quarters to cut their MVP down to the bone and deliver on it.

Then, and only then, should you think about throwing more headcount in the team's general direction. And it needs to be done with the goal of adding a layer of management hierarchy, making sure than no more than 7-10 people are in the daily standups.

Re: Uber lays off 435 people

#467
Any idea roughly how many SF engineers just got laid off? Trying to get a sense of how this will hit the local labor market in the next few weeks.

Articles says 265 engineers.. 85% in the U.S. So up to ~200 will be looking for SF jobs? How many are remote or in other US offices?

Re: Uber lays off 435 people

#468
post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We even started building and maintaining our own chat app God I love the Not Invented Here disease. Somebody, somewhere, thought "hey, slack is way to expensive, we don't want to get 'locked in', and 'mumble mumble privacy cloud evil stallman' so lets write our own chat application.... how hard can it be?" Boom, now the company is straddled by a shitty, homebrew chat application that is maintained by nobody because…

> Somebody, somewhere, thought "hey, slack is way to expensive, we don't want to get 'locked in', and 'mumble mumble privacy cloud evil stallman' [...] Like I completely agree with your overall point about reckless overengineering, but you also just listed three true and really good reasons to avoid integrating Slack.

Slack is not too expensive for a company like Uber. So maybe two good reasons...

Re: Uber lays off 435 people

#469
post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Somebody, somewhere, thought "hey, slack is way to expensive, we don't want to get 'locked in', and 'mumble mumble privacy cloud evil stallman' [...] Like I completely agree with your overall point about reckless overengineering, but you also just listed three true and really good reasons to avoid integrating Slack.

Sure but like, run Mattermost or Lync or an XMPP server with apps pre-built for it... don't build your own system. Just a waste of effort.

Ok, so now those s/SWEs/operations/ folks had nothing better to do than reinvent the wheel.

Re: Uber lays off 435 people

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also recently announced plans to hire 3,000+ in Dallas [1] at a brand new massive office. I'm sure the hiring and layoffs are from different business units, but it does seem strange that there's been multiple several-hundred-people-layoff stories form Uber recently at the same time they're announcing otherwise massive hiring expansion. I would at least figure that they would prefer to transfer engineers between…

Does Uber have different pay scales depending on location?

Yes.
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