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Uber lays off 435 people

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Re: Uber lays off 435 people

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't really cost anything... Depending on context, sure this could be true. Like if you're comparing the cost of releasing some small OSS module of Uber's to Uber's annual revenue, sure, it's going to be a negligible cost. But if you compare against the cost of developing the module in the first place, it can easily be an equal expense. For example I spent several months on a BLE library for Android ( https:/…

> So cleaning up code, making sure no sensitive info, swear words and such, documentation, lawyery stuff, icons, PR copy, blog post, basic website, wiki, and much more nitty gritty I'm glossing over. I'm the manager of one of Uber's OSS projects, and all that the things you listed here ring true. I just know that in our case at least, OSS prep absolutely pales in comparison to the feature/operational work put in by t…

>I'm the manager of one of Uber's OSS projects

Do you expect to still be doing this same job (or one step higher) in 6 months?

Re: Uber lays off 435 people

#222
post #184

They are in a race: Be the first with self-driving taxis and go for the monopoly, or run out of cash. I don't want to sound pessimistic, but my bet is on the latter. It's just such a hard problem, especially in cities. I just hope there won't be a kind of AI winter when some of these startups run out of money.

> Be the first with self-driving taxis This is thrown out all the time. How exactly does this save them? Are they going to spend billions to purchase and maintain a fleet of their own taxis? Are they going to be paying people to "borrow" their self-driving cabs? Something else? I just don't see how this suddenly changes the equation in a meaningful way. People aren't going to spend more for a self-driving ride and th…

Because self driving cars, while expensive, are still significantly cheaper that employing drivers. Furthermore, it could be argued that you need less self driving cars than cars with drivers, as they never need to take breaks, and can work all hours of the day. It would also drastically decrease ubers cost of entering new cities - previously they relied on driver incentives, this flattens the variation in cost greatly.

Re: Uber lays off 435 people

#223
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the next question is, what do 4000 engineers do? Not aimed as a troll-y question: an informed idea of what the breakdown of that many engineers do would be enlightening. For example, there were about 200 iOS engineers the last I heard. Assuming similar levels for Android, that leaves 3,500-3,600 engineers.

+1 Appreciate you avoiding the usual "it's just a little smartphone app" I'm not going to try and give an exhaustive list, but as a rough explanation: things get really, really hard when you're operating at Uber scale (hundreds of thousands of riders on trip at any one time, each demanding low latency and reliability): - Product: native clients for each side of the marketplace in each vertical (rides, eats, freight,…

Datacenters are not cheap either, at escale go for the Cloud as it makes some operations more efficient which is what they want.

VMware for example, assuming they don't use ProxMox lol, is super expensive, hardware maintenance, network, power, building, etc.

Re: Uber lays off 435 people

#224
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True self driving (no driver, no steering wheel) is far enough away that we don't know for sure if it will ever actually happen.

Well, obviously the people at Google think it's possible or they wouldn't keep investing in Waymo.

I never said it was impossible, it's just not an absolute certainty or just around the corner as people make it out to be. It's at best a research project.

Re: Uber lays off 435 people

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who aren't critical to the core product, or whose projects aren't big revenue generators. They might be high performers while being technically unprofitable.

> They might be high performers while being technically unprofitable. Why would you do that vs moving the high performers to the business critical projects?

So you're saying software devs are just cogs that can be easily replaced?

Re: Uber lays off 435 people

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.quora.com/How-many-times-can-you-interview-with-...

Trust me when I say "does not match reality"

Yeah, if you work for Facebook on something Google wants, you can flunk 10 onsite interviews in a row... There was some blog post from a guy who flunked like 7 onsite interviews, year after year, before he got into Google...

Re: Uber lays off 435 people

#227
post #176
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a worthwhile writeup of how Uber's operating costs are generally higher than the industry it "disrupted" without actually solving the structural problems that industry had found an equilibrium around: https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2019/05/ubers-path-of-des...

Two relevant excerpts from that article on cost and structural problems: ===== On Cost: The cost structure of any urban car service company has four components: vehicle costs (typically 18 percent of total, including acquisition, financing, maintenance, and licensing), corporate costs (15 percent, including dispatching, advertising, overhead functions such as IT and legal, and returns to shareholders), fuel (9 percen…

The only point that sounds even remotely correct here is "companies can afford cheaper financing to buy cars than individuals" - although Uber could easily take care of that by buying vehicles and leasing them to drivers.

Otherwise, yeah, Uber did fundamentally improve both productivity and service quality vs. traditional cab companies. Mobile apps are an obvious service quality improvement (predictable waiting times, ease of finding cabs in remote locations, ease of payment), and allow Uber to provide the same level of service (i.e. availability / waiting times) as traditional cab companies, but with less drivers (since a user doesn't need to actually see a cab in order to hail it).

All other issues apply equally to cab companies - e.g. empty backhaul costs, cost of peak capacity, bimodal income distribution of users - except that Uber does, or at least could, solve them better with technological means - e.g. Uber Pool and Uber Eats for backhaul costs, automated and/or predictable surcharge for peak capacity issues, Uber Black to target richer users.

Overcapacity risk: in some locations, cabs were practically unlimited (e.g. Slovenia) so this existed before, in other locations limits were either because of monopoly (e.g. NYC) or skills (e.g. London), both of which Uber improves - breaking monopoly lowers prices for users (without decreasing driver wages, simply by destroying the profits of rent-seeking medalion owners), and there's no need to know every street of London in the era of Google Maps (and I definitely don't want to pay for it).

So, let's not kid ourselves - Uber is strictly better than what was before, and given its global availability, it also has a moat (when you land in city X, are you gonna load and set up local taxi cab that you don't know or trust, or just use Uber?), though there are still some regulatory / monopoly issues (e.g. in London Uber can't use bus lanes, whereas black cabs can). But I want to take Uber whenever I can and I want London cabs to die in fire.

(Having said that, I'm short on Uber as I think it's overvalued - but that doesn't mean without value. Also, I'm not against regulation - cities could improve relevant regulation e.g. preventing Uber from lying about surcharges, driver availability / location and preventing drivers from cancelling rides, but most cities choose to instead serve entrenched interests by (attempting to, yet fortunately often failing) enforcing monopolies.)

TL;DR: quoted part of article is mostly wrong.

Re: Uber lays off 435 people

#228
post #181

Probably some reality shaking out. Uber's engineering team puts out some impressive stuff, often as OSS. Their engineering blogs are regularly on HN. I've been genuinely surprised that they churn out some of these things and release them for free given their relatively extreme financial situation. In contrast to companies like Google, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon etc. that have mountains of their own money to burn (rathe…

Maybe the 435 people should get together and start a Uber competitor?

Or they can start driving for Uber!

Re: Uber lays off 435 people

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean resistance to his ideals and methods are based on his relative carelessness towards anything but his and the company's goals. Incredible leader, amazing CEO with the raw ability to move mountains for the company's growth. Remarkably bad at human and helping humankind. If burning the Amazon rainforest helped Uber's goals he would have it torched in the most efficient and rapid method possible by morning light.…

> CEO with the raw ability to move mountains for the company's growth. Perhaps to a fault. He seemed to be so singularly focused on increasing revenue that, when it became clear that people would line up around the block to buy crisp new dollar bills for $0.75 apiece, he didn't hesitate for a second.

... and it worked, he and Garret are each worth $10b.

Re: Uber lays off 435 people

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The basic economics argument assumes that there are not price points that are both higher than what drivers accept and that consumers are willing to pay. The existence of Lyft plays a role here, but both are in the same boat - they either need a new product line with better margins to take off that has some synergies with the ride-sharing business, or the unit economics of ride-sharing need to get bad enough for both…

The fact that taxi cabs existed for decades and were profitable means that this price point exists. That was the whole reason lyft and uber entered the market in the first place.

Taxis are an extremely bad example as they did not operate in an open market, essentially behaving as a government-sanctioned cartel.
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