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There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work

37signals.com

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Re: There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work

#41

Post by frankc »

I see this a number of posts here arguing for/agaist this with an unsaid dichotomy where the choices are

1) don't critisize, create instead 2) Criticism is good, even if is kind of mean.

But I think this a false dichotomy. Words and tone do matter. If you put the object of your criticism in a defensive position, you are unlikely to effect any change at all. This is not some new insight; it's been well understood at the very least since Dale Carnegie. You might acheive the goal of making yourself feel good, but then that certainly isn't worthy of any external respect.

What's the difference between: 1) You app is ugly and it fucking sucks. If you used abc to do xyz, at least I wouldn't be vomitting.

and

2)Nice effort on your app. You might consider using abc to do xyz. It might improve the aesthetics and usability some.

Some might say it says effectively the same thing, but the there is a world of difference in the way the reader reacts to those statements.

Re: There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work

#43

Post by msbarnett »

jsdalton wrote: post #9

I agree that just shitting all over people's work is, well, shitty. But I disagree entirely that the anonymous critic behind Read the Fucking HIG ( http://readthefuckinghig.tumblr.com/ ) is out of line or that this kind of criticism is lacking in merit. Firstly, it's clearly a bit tongue in cheek: "The evil doctor cackled as the thunder struck his lightning rod, giving life and sentience to his unholy creation, splic…

The key difference is that http://www.whatthefuckshouldimakefordinner.com/ and the like aren't using vulgarity in the service of an attack on other people's hard work.

And I tend to agree with the article's argument that a criticism of the design without using the design is pointless nerdrage.

Re: There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work

#44

Post by msbarnett »

danilocampos wrote: post #22

37signals is at their worst when they adopt this sanctimonious attitude. Say what you want about their juvenile tone, the criticisms on RTFHIG are mostly valid. What are we going to do next? Pillory literary, film and food critics because their insights are inconvenient to the sensitive feelings of creators in those realms? Come on. Creating things for other people has a long, rich history of criticism. Some valid, s…

We do pillory film, literary and food critics who are caught basing their review on a publicity still of the work in question.

It is not unreasonable to expect a critic to watch/read/eat/use the film/book/food/UI in question before calling its creator a "fucking hack".

Re: There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work

#45

Post by jakeg »

jasonlotito wrote: post #31
jakeg wrote: post #24

“Where the heck were you when the page was blank?” - Paul Butterworth Always such a bogus argument. This is what people say when they don't like your opinion but have no argument to counter, so they resort to a rhetorical that implies you have no authority on the issue. But the fact is you do not need to be a creator to criticize a creation legitimately. Sometimes specializing in just observation/criticism and not cr…

> . How it goes about that criticism and any unnecessary hostility is another issue. No, that's the issue. Dismissing that invalidates your entire comment.

I was responding to the bottom half of the article which makes the argument I referenced separately.

Re: There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work

#46

Post by jonhendry »

Eh, it's like Regretsy, the site that makes fun of atrocious items placed for sale on Etsy. Even Regretsy has wound up boosting sales of the mocked items. They've also harnessed their traffic for good with occasional charity appeals, and helped a little boy with cancer raise $100,000 or so to pay for his treatment.

Re: There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work

#48

Post by dev_jim »

bane wrote: post #27

I think what rubs me the wrong way about this site is not the criticism. Criticism is ok. It's lack of proposed solutions. One thing I really enjoy is when designers take a look at some established interface and try and design a better one and put it out there for comments and ideas. That is constructive criticism in my book. example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/zachklein/4831151379/

Most of the apps reviewed are beyond salvaging. At least the Delta site had a decent base to work off of.

Re: There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work

#49

Post by bradleyland »

msbarnett wrote: post #44
danilocampos wrote: post #22

37signals is at their worst when they adopt this sanctimonious attitude. Say what you want about their juvenile tone, the criticisms on RTFHIG are mostly valid. What are we going to do next? Pillory literary, film and food critics because their insights are inconvenient to the sensitive feelings of creators in those realms? Come on. Creating things for other people has a long, rich history of criticism. Some valid, s…

We do pillory film, literary and food critics who are caught basing their review on a publicity still of the work in question. It is not unreasonable to expect a critic to watch/read/eat/use the film/book/food/UI in question before calling its creator a "fucking hack".

I need not take a bit of a cow pie to tell you that it will taste like shit. I can tell from where I'm sitting.

Re: There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work

#50

Post by rick_2047 »

roc wrote: post #28
jzimdars wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He may be right. But he's not adding any value for anyone the way he points it out. I think the biggest problem I have with it is that he's insulting and attacking the people who made these apps. There is no reason for that.

> "But he's not adding any value for anyone the way he points it out." It's a curious community we have. Pointing out problems or reporting visceral reaction is considered not constructive. Yet speculative re-designs to illustrate what the critic might have done differently are also considered not constructive. It seems to me that when nothing short of actually competing against a product is considered useful or vali…

If you think about it carefully the emphasis here is not on if he should complain or not, the emphasis is on the way he should complain.
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