Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

#171

Post by bzbarsky » Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 7:32 PM UTC

SnarkAsh wrote: post #57

pysxul wrote: post #48

> Americans' fear of losing their jobs Unemployment rate in the US is only 3.7% (July 2019) Employee fears that they are replaceable and the truth is that most of them are. So they are working hard, they perform, they are productive and economy is better than it has ever been! I am french and where I worked it is nearly impossible to fire a long-term contract employes (CDI). Most of them do less than the bare minimum…

Unemployment rate is an essentially-fraudlent statistic. Changes in the labour force participation rate are more revealing: https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

Zooming that graph out to start in 1980 shows that there is a trend there that did not start in 2009 but closer to 2000.

Also, that specific graph is of limited utility because it is the over-16 labor force participation rate, not the prime-age one. Which means that as the age distribution skews more toward post-retirement-age people it will automatically drop. Which is exactly what's been happening, by the way, as the baby boomers have started retiring. This rate will also drop as more people go to college instead of starting work immediately after high school.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2017/employment-population-rati... has a chart that lets you see a breakdown by age group, sort of, for 2007-2017. Note the huge differences in the rate between the age buckets and where the overall rate falls compared to the 25-54 rate.

Re: Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

#172

Post by username90 » Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 7:44 PM UTC

rubicon33 wrote: post #169

avgDev wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big Tech yes, but there are smaller companies who have an insanely hard time finding well rounded full stack engineers.

That has nothing to do with a shortage of engineers. There are plenty of engineers, just none that are willing to work for 70k a year. There is a salary divide between what big companies can pay, and what little companies can pay. That's drawing a significant portion of the talent away from the smaller labor market. Either the smaller companies need to consider hiring more junior engineers (of which there are plenty)…

Or we recognize that steering more students towards programming is good both for their career and the economy. It is only people who wants developers to stay better paid than other similar fields who thinks that it isn't a shortage.

Re: Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

#173

Post by brightball » Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 7:44 PM UTC

velcrovan wrote: post #53

brightball wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s a bit of a leap to go from people identifying themselves by their profession to not valuing human life as a country.

Not much of a leap though. We sell a much bigger majority of our waking hours to live. With less economic security, people constantly have to move away from friends, family and community to stay employed. End result, we end up constantly working and alienated from each other. When you consider that “human life” can and SHOULD mean so much more than “having a pulse”, I don't think the parent comment was inaccurate at…

The same can be said about everyone feeling the need to go to college, at the best schools they can get into, at any price tag paid for by loans to try to get the most successful job offered in a city somewhere.

Most of us would be able to get perfectly good jobs in our own home towns, earning a modest living near where we grew up via the trades, real estate, teaching, selling insurance, etc.

We chose to pursue more because the opportunities are there and we want them. That's because of how much we value ourselves and the extraordinary opportunities that we have in our lives. It has nothing to do with how we value others.

I'm very successful and I'm thankful for the opportunities that have put me where I am. I enjoy my work and I'm thankful for that. I also had a stretch where I worked really hard and alienated myself.

But that is a problem that I also chose to fix.

I made an effort to get to know my neighbors, to invite them to lunch, to join a local church, to get involved in a local rotary club, to meet local small business owners. There's a surprisingly large amount of people who are more than happy to grab a bite for lunch and as you get to know people better, you invite them to other things when you discover you share interests. Making friends in a new area takes a little bit of work, but it's more than worth the time.

Re: Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

#174

Post by username90 » Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 7:46 PM UTC

en-us wrote: post #166

avgDev wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big Tech yes, but there are smaller companies who have an insanely hard time finding well rounded full stack engineers.

Based on my last job search, smaller companies just aren't paying salaries that are going to attract well rounded full stack engineers.

The reason software engineering pay so much better than similar fields is since there is a lack of software engineers. Encouraging people to pick that option in order to lower wages to similar levels as other fields makes perfect sense, don't you agree?

Re: Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

#175

Post by siruncledrew » Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 7:47 PM UTC

glitchc wrote: post #35

I think this reflects a general erosion of trust between employers and employees, which I blame Corporate America for. It used to be a tacit agreement in the workforce that if you worked hard, the boss and the company would take care of you. This illusion has been shattered first by the employers (outsourcing, at-will employment, gig economy), and now the employees (ghosting, switching firms without notice). The lack…

Semantically, I think the erosion of trust is a symptom of having larger and more consolidated companies in Corporate America.

Trust comes from getting to know people and working with them. It's a lot easier to know 10 people than 250+. I think with smaller scale businesses with fewer employees there is a stronger sense of community and trust to watch out for each other. For a huge company spread out all over, there's not a sense of really 'belonging' to a community (some may say it's more 'using' a community), so the trust is murkier.

Imagine a family of 10 people vs. a family of 250 people. How much trust would one have in a sister or cousin vs. an aunt's cousin's daughter's niece?

Now imagine how much trust an employee would have in job decisions made by a manager's manager's VP's SVP at corporate HQ. They may hardly know each other aside from name only, so why would they care about each other, let alone trust each other? They are just blips on each other's radars.

Re: Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

#176

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 7:49 PM UTC

transreal wrote: post #151

Someone1234 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UBI is an interest concept but it wouldn't solve this. If you go from e.g. $5K/month (job) to $1K/month (UBI) you'd still have to adjust your living standards (and if people expect to lose their jobs, even with UBI, they'd still make more cautious decisions which would still trigger the same indicators). UBI and other social safety nets are "good ideas." But they aren't a one size fits all solution to every problem.…

The point of UBI isn't that you will live off of $1000/month. Americans generally don't want to live off the government dole, they want to work hard. Perhaps they want to start their own businesses and live the American dream of self sufficiency. But for most, this is out of the question unless you come from a well to do family, so you are forced to work a crappy job for many years just so you and your family don't s…

[deleted]

Re: Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

#177

Post by partyboat1586 » Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 8:00 PM UTC

cubano wrote: post #107

I've stopped fearing losing a job because, frankly, it happens so often as a remote webdev I basically never stop looking. In fact, I am currently unemployed after I rather unwisely completed a 20-week job in 11, and I was literally given no notice and a week's pay. So now its back to the Upwork slog and trying to convince someone (again) that yes, since I have been a professional programmer for 25 years I can for su…

Why don't you contract days for bigger companies? Day rates are very high for someone with your experience. Also you can usually negotiate to be on site only some days of the week or even month

Re: Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

#178

Post by glitchc » Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 8:07 PM UTC

spyckie2 wrote: post #90

glitchc wrote: post #35

I think this reflects a general erosion of trust between employers and employees, which I blame Corporate America for. It used to be a tacit agreement in the workforce that if you worked hard, the boss and the company would take care of you. This illusion has been shattered first by the employers (outsourcing, at-will employment, gig economy), and now the employees (ghosting, switching firms without notice). The lack…

Not on the side of Corporate America but curious how you would respond. As markets get more mature, it becomes difficult for companies to maintain employees if their salary level to contribution rate drops. Is the assumption that employees will absolutely be valuable to a company's strategic goals? How can a company practically care for an employee for life?

Before we worry about taking care of employees for life, how about we first fix stagnating wages? Companies are still making excellent profits, some are at record profits even after inflation adjustment. Skyrocketing CEO pay is one of the causes. Please see graph in Figure 3:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/26/18744304/c...

I couldn't find any European curves, but things are slightly better over there.

Re: Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

#179

Post by chupa-chups » Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 8:08 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #43

VonGuard wrote: post #5

The United States is weird in that you are defined, here, by your job or profession. TV shows put your job title under your name when you appear on them. People's first question is always "What do you do?" at parties and at events. In other countries, this isn't always the case. When I'm in Europe, people ask where you're from, what's for dinner, and what's happening? The question of your job is rarely asked up front…

These silly “American bad Europe good” comments always find their way into these discussions, and they are as uninsightful as “if you aren’t the customer you’re the product!”. An equally uncharitable interpretation is: American culture, unlike European, places incredible value on personal agency. We ask each other “what do you do” because we actually have the socially enforced freedom to choose what the answer to the…

This is simply bs, sorry for being blunt.

When you're conversing, sooner or later the topic will switch to professions. And there is no taboo in this area.

Asking a stranger about his occupation (esp. if the answer could be - judging by circumstances, appearance or whatever - that she/he has not been as lucky as you regarding jobs/skills) is considered impolite though.

Re: Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

#180

Post by chupa-chups » Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 8:11 PM UTC

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #67

VonGuard wrote: post #5

The United States is weird in that you are defined, here, by your job or profession. TV shows put your job title under your name when you appear on them. People's first question is always "What do you do?" at parties and at events. In other countries, this isn't always the case. When I'm in Europe, people ask where you're from, what's for dinner, and what's happening? The question of your job is rarely asked up front…

"people ask where you're from" There's a trope in India where, especially if you look like you are from a lower social caste, people ask you your name, and if you reply with just your first name, insist on knowing your last name, which is of course a primary caste marker for a lot of people. Asking where someone's from is no different. The answer can be used to silently judge the other person based on the zillion sub…

I am also occasionally asking where someone is from (I'm from europe) and I do this to learn about the (to me) probably unknown culture.

If I feel someone could be offended by asking this, I won't do it.