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Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

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Re: Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

#151

Post by transreal »

Someone1234 wrote: post #50
matz1 wrote: post #29

That's why we need universal basic income

UBI is an interest concept but it wouldn't solve this. If you go from e.g. $5K/month (job) to $1K/month (UBI) you'd still have to adjust your living standards (and if people expect to lose their jobs, even with UBI, they'd still make more cautious decisions which would still trigger the same indicators). UBI and other social safety nets are "good ideas." But they aren't a one size fits all solution to every problem.…

The point of UBI isn't that you will live off of $1000/month. Americans generally don't want to live off the government dole, they want to work hard.

Perhaps they want to start their own businesses and live the American dream of self sufficiency. But for most, this is out of the question unless you come from a well to do family, so you are forced to work a crappy job for many years just so you and your family don't starve.

If everyone gets UBI, you suddenly have choices. You can finally start that business you've been dreaming about if your family invests their UBI in you for some time, or if you get 10 friends together (if you have no family). And if the business fails, you're not suddenly in debt to a bank and having to declare bankruptcy and ruining your credit.

Or if starting a business is not for you, you can feel free to tell your boss you're unhappy, because if you're fired, you're not suddenly unable to pay rent (depending on where you live, you may need to save up a few months of UBI for this). You won't be so mentally distraught at the idea of 0 income, and corporations won't be able to so brazenly take advantage of workers, keeping them on their toes with the constant threat of the axe falling down because quarterly profits were down 10%.

Re: Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

#152

Post by avgDev »

mywittyname wrote: post #33
commandlinefan wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I graduated in 1995, at the peak of the dot-com boom. I'm still pretty much always in fear of losing my job: there's always somebody willing to do it for less.

Especially now with the record enrollment in CS/CE programs over the past 5-10 years. The industry has been awash with fresh talent for the past few years and I don't see it slowing down.

I'm not concerned about fresh talent. When I went to a state school I was worried, I wrote scripts, did some minor html and word press. I considered myself as someone who has 0 experience programming. I did quite well but I did not expect the amount of people who simply are not cut out for programming. In programming 1 and 2 about 50% completed the course. Discrete structure only 15%. Algorithms less than 50%. It was an insane experience and the school is no MIT. People pick CS because they all think they will make $100k straight out of school. They don't care about computers/programming. Someone that is half passionate will have much greater results because they take some pride in their work.

Plus, good problem solvers do not have to program to make money. You can go work for smaller company and help them define processes, improve automation or manage software/system integration.

Re: Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

#153

Post by avgDev »

rubicon33 wrote: post #111
bonoboTP wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's different in the US but in Europe companies still struggle to find good job candidates. They get tons of applications of course but they aren't good/experienced enough. Basically many companies' bottleneck is hiring.

Dude. I beg of you, to stop repeating the propaganda that big tech so desperately wants you, and everyone else to believe. There is NOT a shortage in developers. There NEVER WAS. Big Tech simply couldn't stomach the rise in salaries that we saw between 2005 and 2017/2018. This all comes down to cost. There's plenty of talent not just in the US, but abroad. But big tech continues to see a need to drive prices down, an…

Big Tech yes, but there are smaller companies who have an insanely hard time finding well rounded full stack engineers.

Re: Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

#154

Post by bluntfang »

dx87 wrote: post #88
bluntfang wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We ask each other “what do you do” because we actually have the socially enforced freedom to choose what the answer to the question is. No we don't, or at least most people don't. People of disenfranchised communities don't choose to not go to college or get a job in software development. This makes up most people.

Saying that if people had a choice they'd go to college or get a job as a software developer is quite an assumption. There's nothing wrong with wanting to go to do something like a trade school. I've got some younger cousins that are earning the same amount as apprentice electricians as my wife with a masters degree.

This is a strawman. Disenfranchised communities don't have a choice to go to a trade school either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_poverty

Re: Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

#155

Post by dragontamer »

transreal wrote: post #151
Someone1234 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UBI is an interest concept but it wouldn't solve this. If you go from e.g. $5K/month (job) to $1K/month (UBI) you'd still have to adjust your living standards (and if people expect to lose their jobs, even with UBI, they'd still make more cautious decisions which would still trigger the same indicators). UBI and other social safety nets are "good ideas." But they aren't a one size fits all solution to every problem.…

The point of UBI isn't that you will live off of $1000/month. Americans generally don't want to live off the government dole, they want to work hard. Perhaps they want to start their own businesses and live the American dream of self sufficiency. But for most, this is out of the question unless you come from a well to do family, so you are forced to work a crappy job for many years just so you and your family don't s…

Starting a new business during a recession is a fool's game.

The problem with a recession is that everyone has collectively decided to buy less stuff. People are buying less stuff, which means factories need to make fewer items, which means people get fired, which causes more people to buy less stuff.

It also means that banks are less willing to fund new businesses, and shareholders are less willing to buy up IPOs / etc. etc. Investors "flight to safety" and buy up US Treasuries, while selling off "risky" properties. Causing stock prices to drop, IPOs to fail, and the overall mechanisms of growth to taper off.

UBI "solves" social issues, but doesn't seem to be a solution to the economic / recession issue. If a recession hits, there's pretty much nothing you can do about it.

At the moment, there are some severely mixed signals: manufacturing seems to be in decline, agriculture is also in decline. Futhermore, the yield curve has inverted.

On the other hand: the unemployment rate remains low and general investor sentiment also seems high. Investors are still investing into risky businesses and focusing on a "Growth model" (see Uber, Lyft, Tesla, etc. etc.). So some people are optimistic, while others are growing pessimistic. Its hard to tell if a recession is on the way.

Re: Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

#156

Post by H1Supreme »

simplecomplex wrote: post #119

Save some money, then you don’t need to fear losing your job. Fear of losing your job is a result of poor personal finances. There’s no need to fear if you have your personal finances in order.

Apparently you've never lived "paycheck to paycheck" before. I can remember a time in my life where I would be so happy just to have an extra $100 at the end of the month. This was living with roommates, never going out, and bringing my lunch everyday. No frivolous spending at all.

God forbid you have to fix your car, or some other unexpected expense. That $1,000 it took you 6 months to save is gone in an instant.

While I'm much better off these days, lots of Americans live the way I just described. You can't save what you don't have.

Re: Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

#157

Post by dragontamer »

matz1 wrote: post #143
Someone1234 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That with UBI we'd still be in exactly the same position as now? Your point was that UBI would somehow play a relevant role in low consumer confidence. I am pointing out that may not be the case.

How is exactly the same? $1k>$0k. With basic income, I for example for sure will be less anxious if i know that if I lose my job now, I still have some income.

US Workers have unemployment checks, food stamps, and Medicaid. No one is hitting $0 / month unless you're out of a job for over 6-months (when some unemployment benefits run out).

If a lot of people are unemployed for over 6 months unemployment benefits can often be extended by the legislature.

Re: Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

#158

Post by matz1 »

dragontamer wrote: post #157
matz1 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is exactly the same? $1k>$0k. With basic income, I for example for sure will be less anxious if i know that if I lose my job now, I still have some income.

US Workers have unemployment checks, food stamps, and Medicaid. No one is hitting $0 / month unless you're out of a job for over 6-months (when some unemployment benefits run out). If a lot of people are unemployed for over 6 months unemployment benefits can often be extended by the legislature.

Basic income doesn't replace health care. unemployment checks, food stamps require waiting time, hoops, paperwork. Even then there is still some chance to be denied. There is no 6-month limitation on basic income.

Re: Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

#159

Post by povertyworld »

chillwaves wrote: post #135
povertyworld wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't bring myself to even click on those. The media has cried wolf for so long with Trump, if I see a headline saying "Trump to start WW3", I'm just going to think, boy, the NY Times just keeps hitting new lows and not even click it.

Your example of the "media crying wolf" on Trump has left members of his inner circle in jail for lying about their connections to Russia. Hardly "crying wolf".

Wow, so the witch hunt managed to pinch a few people on technicalities. Of all the problems in America this is what they waste time on? I thought Democrats were supposed to be better than Ken Starr, but apparently not. Democrats love to say how putting your political opponents in prison is a dictator's move, yet they just spent the last two years trying to do exactly that. Nice misdirection from a rotten party.

Re: Americans' fear of losing their jobs grows

#160

Post by non-entity »

rubicon33 wrote: post #111
bonoboTP wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's different in the US but in Europe companies still struggle to find good job candidates. They get tons of applications of course but they aren't good/experienced enough. Basically many companies' bottleneck is hiring.

Dude. I beg of you, to stop repeating the propaganda that big tech so desperately wants you, and everyone else to believe. There is NOT a shortage in developers. There NEVER WAS. Big Tech simply couldn't stomach the rise in salaries that we saw between 2005 and 2017/2018. This all comes down to cost. There's plenty of talent not just in the US, but abroad. But big tech continues to see a need to drive prices down, an…

> I beg of you, to stop repeating the propaganda that big tech so desperately wants you, and everyone else to believe.

I fell for this hard. I was in high school reading blog left and right about how in demand programmers were and that you didn't even really need college because it was too much theory, not solving the problems companies want.

So I decided, why take all that time when I could make make money right out of high school. Turns out, that decision hsa kinda screwed me now.

Now I did get started before some of the hype. I guess it was there, but not as prominent or in my face. I do general enjou programming and solving problems and it's not just a money thing for me. Unfortunately, I feel my decisions will choke my career eventually.

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