Nothing is more important than family.
It's later than you think
51–60 of 147 posts
Re: It's later than you think
#52Remember that performative workaholism is poison to life. Every time you put in more hours over the weekend "just because", dial in to a meeting on your vacation, or get on Slack at 10 PM "just to check a few things" - you're shifting the culture to make it that much more acceptable to demand it of everyone. The parents in your meetings that run until 7:30 bitterly hate you. It might seem OK when you're single, child…
I agree if you're talking strictly about salaried employees, because you don't get paid for that overtime work. But as a contract developer if I want to work 60 hours each week, instead of 40, to earn an extra 50% when I invoice them at the end of the month, that is my prerogative.
I'm a contractor. I've been working extra hours continuously for a few months. The money and flexibility are great. However, more than a few times my 6yr old (Whoa, he is 6 already?) has stumbled into my home office at 9:00 PM. I've been telling myself that this should stop. But I've been ploughing on. What if my contracts run out the end of the year? I need to upgrade my skills. So I'm traveling next week for a week long programming course.
I hear first hand accounts of L5 to L6 employees and first level managers working unbelievably hard. The pay off is probably "worth it" if they or their kid don't end up being "a statistic". To be in this place (CEO, Founder, AppMaGooSoft) the odds were always in their favor to begin with. So why would the odds be unfavorable going forward? As a result there will always be a group of employees willing to throw themselves head first into whatever "challenge" "management" throws down.
Re: It's later than you think
#53Remember that performative workaholism is poison to life. Every time you put in more hours over the weekend "just because", dial in to a meeting on your vacation, or get on Slack at 10 PM "just to check a few things" - you're shifting the culture to make it that much more acceptable to demand it of everyone. The parents in your meetings that run until 7:30 bitterly hate you. It might seem OK when you're single, child…
I agree if you're talking strictly about salaried employees, because you don't get paid for that overtime work. But as a contract developer if I want to work 60 hours each week, instead of 40, to earn an extra 50% when I invoice them at the end of the month, that is my prerogative.
That is of course your choice, but if you do that for a long time, there's a chance of burning out, divorce, losing touch with friends and family etc. Money isn't everything.
Re: It's later than you think
#54Remember that performative workaholism is poison to life. Every time you put in more hours over the weekend "just because", dial in to a meeting on your vacation, or get on Slack at 10 PM "just to check a few things" - you're shifting the culture to make it that much more acceptable to demand it of everyone. The parents in your meetings that run until 7:30 bitterly hate you. It might seem OK when you're single, child…
> The parents in your meetings that run until 7:30 bitterly hate you. It's just not true at all, and seems quite dramatic. A lot of people enjoy working on weekends or putting in long hours some days. When I was younger I would do it regularly, and I certainly don't begrudge or "hate" younger, childless colleagues who do that now, even if they involve me sometimes. Nor did I build myself a "prison". Stop demanding pe…
> A lot of people enjoy working on weekends or putting in long hours some days.
Who are these people? Don't extrapolate your anecdote.
Re: It's later than you think
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I would argue [...] are the cause There is a problem in thinking any one thing is "the cause". It's a multi-faceted problem of many self-reinforcing causes. The comment above talking about " shifting the culture to make it that much more acceptable " is a nod to the subtlety of what contributes to this. All parties, employers and employees both, need to see how they do this.
> The comment above talking about "shifting the culture to make it that much more acceptable" is a nod to the subtlety of what contributes to this. I see no "nod to subtlety" as you claim. All I see is a claim that one employee's overwork is what enables the boss to force you into overwork. For this to happen one needs 1) routine culture of overwork, 2) and employer who leans into this fact, and 3) an inability or un…
Calling people "cowards" who may individually be in no position to push back, doesn't really help the problem. It drips of condescension.
Your point is sound. It's also more ascerbic than it needs to be.
Re: It's later than you think
#56Just a note for everyone who tends to go through the comments and weigh if they should actually go read the post (I'm guilty of this), go read the post. Even if you have nothing to relate this to, it's a great contrast to the majority of posts on this site. It's a breath of fresh, troubling air.
Re: It's later than you think
#57Many of us, especially younger folks with income anxiety and families see no other choice but to work slavishly at the expense of time with our families because we see avoiding starvation as more important than quality time. We could all be forgiven for this.
I've made it past that phase of my life, having missed the entire first year of my middle daughter's life, not being there properly for my family after the loss (cancer) of one of our daughters at 2 1/2. My oldest daughter (are you keeping count) who is 18, I barely know and am just now building a relationship with.
I have the luxury of not making that mistake with our youngest daughter (we're up to 4 girls now) who is now 5. I still remember giving up time at home so that I could ensure I kept my job and was investing in the skills to get the next raise.
Hindsight is 20/20 and you already know what I'm going to tell you. You'd be surprised how little of your stress about your current job translates to you keeping it, but that stress makes you grumpy or distant and difficult to feel love from. You'd be surprised how something as small as dinner together, tucking them in at night, or an unrushed breakfast, can take so little time but mean so much to you and to them, still leaving you with the time to advance your career on behalf of the ones you love.
Please spend those special moments, they're so few and they pass so quickly. Your family likely won't starve, and maybe even getting fired from a toxic environment will be the break you need to see what else the world has out there for you and your family.
"For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."
Jeremiah 29:11
Re: It's later than you think
#58[deleted]
Re: It's later than you think
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I would argue [...] are the cause There is a problem in thinking any one thing is "the cause". It's a multi-faceted problem of many self-reinforcing causes. The comment above talking about " shifting the culture to make it that much more acceptable " is a nod to the subtlety of what contributes to this. All parties, employers and employees both, need to see how they do this.
> The comment above talking about "shifting the culture to make it that much more acceptable" is a nod to the subtlety of what contributes to this. I see no "nod to subtlety" as you claim. All I see is a claim that one employee's overwork is what enables the boss to force you into overwork. For this to happen one needs 1) routine culture of overwork, 2) and employer who leans into this fact, and 3) an inability or un…
I think you underestimate how easy it is for a CEO, manager, or even high-performing/high-status peer or IC to set the tone and give implicit instruction to others without ever intending to do it.
I have seen it in very mundane things that are not nearly of the magnitude of consequence of this topic. And also, in big things, such as expectations around working hours and standing up to unreasonable requirements.
Perhaps one aspect is that if a behavior is perceived to be a path to success in an organization, it will be emulated, rightly or wrongly, consciously or not. It's important to create an environment where many can thrive.
Re: It's later than you think
#60I think we need to care about our parent too. As they become old, we are just fly away from them and they will struggle in their stage as us. Damn life.
The WaitButWhy post a few years back is incredibly compelling in helping one understand how little time with your parents you may have. For example, if you see them 10 days a year, and they're 70, you might have (10/days * 15 years).... 150 total days with your parents.
Link: https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/12/the-tail-end.html