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It's later than you think

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Re: It's later than you think

#41

Post by [deleted] »

edmundsauto wrote: post #30
CalRobert wrote: post #25

Remember that performative workaholism is poison to life. Every time you put in more hours over the weekend "just because", dial in to a meeting on your vacation, or get on Slack at 10 PM "just to check a few things" - you're shifting the culture to make it that much more acceptable to demand it of everyone. The parents in your meetings that run until 7:30 bitterly hate you. It might seem OK when you're single, child…

This also applies to new technologies and skill gaps. I'm over 30, and have stopped following the latest javascript trends. I want younger people to be satisfied with the tools that I learned; they're perfectly adequate. The treadmill of re-inventing the technology wheel also looks like a prison.

[deleted]

Re: It's later than you think

#42

Post by JoshTriplett »

CalRobert wrote: post #25

Remember that performative workaholism is poison to life. Every time you put in more hours over the weekend "just because", dial in to a meeting on your vacation, or get on Slack at 10 PM "just to check a few things" - you're shifting the culture to make it that much more acceptable to demand it of everyone. The parents in your meetings that run until 7:30 bitterly hate you. It might seem OK when you're single, child…

This is especially important if you're a visible technical leader; you serve as an example for what it takes to get there, so set an example that you can do so without regular overwork.

I love what I do, but I don't ever want to give people the impression or example that becoming a technical leader requires working 50+, 60+ hour weeks. I maintain a work/life balance, and I want people to see that you can maintain that balance at all levels.

Re: It's later than you think

#43

Post by klik99 »

I'm in tears reading this and his wife's account (https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/all-remains-dr-jessica-brande...) - I didn't realize how short life was until I realized I only had 52 weeks with each of my one-year-old sons, and stories like this are a reminder about what's really important.

A friend said it well when I was feeling guilty I wasn't putting more time into my work, "No one has ever looked back on their life and said 'I wish I spent less time with my family'".

Re: It's later than you think

#44

Post by mieseratte »

asveikau wrote: post #39
mieseratte wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you're shifting the culture to make it that much more acceptable to demand it of everyone. I would argue the cowards who refuse to ever stand up to employers are the cause. If you aren't able to push back on your boss, you're fucked regardless of how many hours I choose to work.

> I would argue [...] are the cause There is a problem in thinking any one thing is "the cause". It's a multi-faceted problem of many self-reinforcing causes. The comment above talking about " shifting the culture to make it that much more acceptable " is a nod to the subtlety of what contributes to this. All parties, employers and employees both, need to see how they do this.

> The comment above talking about "shifting the culture to make it that much more acceptable" is a nod to the subtlety of what contributes to this.

I see no "nod to subtlety" as you claim. All I see is a claim that one employee's overwork is what enables the boss to force you into overwork.

For this to happen one needs 1) routine culture of overwork, 2) and employer who leans into this fact, and 3) an inability or unwillingness to push-back.

If you solve for #3 you've made #1 and #2 irrelevant.

Calling for others to stop willingly work as much reminds me of an old film I'd seen as a kid wherein a new employee starts at a loading dock, and after his first highly performant day the old-timers come along and give him a talking to about his making them look bad.

You'll only look bad if your team and boss expect the "above and beyond" to become the new norm, and this isn't a rule. It is a result of shit conditions.

Just as expecting your coworkers to go above and beyond is bad, so is chiding them for willingly working harder than you.

Re: It's later than you think

#45

Post by cardiffspaceman »

ip26 wrote: post #19
nervousvarun wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much this. Personally feel this is one of the most deplorable "widely accepted" social phenomenon in the west. I have an immigrant family on my street (know them and they are from China) that is three generations...every morning as I drive to work I pass the grandparents walking the children to the bus stop for school. Every day I think "why don't our parents live with us"? I've asked them but they've said no. The…

It's a devil's bargain either way. If you can't move away from your parents, your career prospects & upward mobility can be severely hampered. If your parents move to follow you, they can cut short their own successful careers and sever deep social ties they have spent a lifetime building. Most of this country was settled & built by people who left home to find their fortune.

My mother moved to a far-away, small town late in her career to improve her retirement finances. (It worked). Then one of my brothers moved to a new town for access to recreation opportunities. Surprisingly they have been living a short drive apart since then. But neither of them live near the friends they made in $BIGCITY where they were born, raised, and lived for a long time.

I agree with the idea of being able to start your career somewhere other than where your parents live. In the future maybe something will change about vocations/careers that will make location less relevant and this might help our family lives.

Re: It's later than you think

#46

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

edmundsauto wrote: post #30
CalRobert wrote: post #25

Remember that performative workaholism is poison to life. Every time you put in more hours over the weekend "just because", dial in to a meeting on your vacation, or get on Slack at 10 PM "just to check a few things" - you're shifting the culture to make it that much more acceptable to demand it of everyone. The parents in your meetings that run until 7:30 bitterly hate you. It might seem OK when you're single, child…

This also applies to new technologies and skill gaps. I'm over 30, and have stopped following the latest javascript trends. I want younger people to be satisfied with the tools that I learned; they're perfectly adequate. The treadmill of re-inventing the technology wheel also looks like a prison.

The struggle with that is how do you step off the treadmill but stay relatively current. I think about how web pages looked 10 years ago, and in a world of React, I feel like very, very few of the things I learned then help me for more than the very, very basics.

Re: It's later than you think

#47

Post by electricviolet »

mieseratte wrote: post #32
CalRobert wrote: post #25

Remember that performative workaholism is poison to life. Every time you put in more hours over the weekend "just because", dial in to a meeting on your vacation, or get on Slack at 10 PM "just to check a few things" - you're shifting the culture to make it that much more acceptable to demand it of everyone. The parents in your meetings that run until 7:30 bitterly hate you. It might seem OK when you're single, child…

> you're shifting the culture to make it that much more acceptable to demand it of everyone. I would argue the cowards who refuse to ever stand up to employers are the cause. If you aren't able to push back on your boss, you're fucked regardless of how many hours I choose to work.

Let's be clear -- the biggest responsibility for change rests on those who have the most power. Those "cowards" may have no savings and could be fired at the drop of a hat.

But if what you mean is that employees have a choice between passively accepting the status quo or trying to act collectively to improve their conditions, then yes, I agree.

Re: It's later than you think

#48

Post by JeanMarcS »

codebeaker wrote: post #5

I took a step back in my career to work from home, and bring my kids to the kindergarten with my bike some days, and take a late lunch and eat their "dinner" with them, and it has been totally, totally worth-it. Remote work being a set-back is possibly a side-effect of how I selected my new gig, but it has suited me so well, I don't care about the (temporary) career stagnation. Beautiful story, I felt it hard.

I had the opposite path 4 years ago.

After working from home (and watch my kids grow) I had an opportunity to work to help finishing a big project that would make money.

It was just 3-4 month of hard work (including almost every week ends and some nights) and then back to normal hours when the project would be on track.

Well, as often, months turned to a year, then a year and a half, and no real end of the "hard" part in sight.

My son started ignoring me, my daughter waked up early to have a glimpse of me before I go.

I finaly ended it (mostly when the word Divorce was pronounced out loud) and fight to be a member of my family again. And work from home.

For now, this period was the biggest mistake of my near-half-a-century life, and until the kids can take themselves in charge, I won't move from home again.

Re: It's later than you think

#49

Post by bradlys »

stasusmt wrote: post #7

I think we need to care about our parent too. As they become old, we are just fly away from them and they will struggle in their stage as us. Damn life.

I think those who like their parents do already. I think those who don't like their parents don't need to. It's the parents' job to be a person worth loving and caring for. It isn't the child's burden.

Re: It's later than you think

#50

Post by dlandis »

CalRobert wrote: post #25

Remember that performative workaholism is poison to life. Every time you put in more hours over the weekend "just because", dial in to a meeting on your vacation, or get on Slack at 10 PM "just to check a few things" - you're shifting the culture to make it that much more acceptable to demand it of everyone. The parents in your meetings that run until 7:30 bitterly hate you. It might seem OK when you're single, child…

> The parents in your meetings that run until 7:30 bitterly hate you.

It's just not true at all, and seems quite dramatic. A lot of people enjoy working on weekends or putting in long hours some days. When I was younger I would do it regularly, and I certainly don't begrudge or "hate" younger, childless colleagues who do that now, even if they involve me sometimes. Nor did I build myself a "prison". Stop demanding people live their lives how you want them to.

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