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Apple Dominates App Store Search Results, Thwarting Competitors

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Re: Apple Dominates App Store Search Results, Thwarting Competitors

#31

Post by TeMPOraL »

save_ferris wrote: post #8
rogerkirkness wrote: post #3

The world of atoms is the same as the world of bits: you really want to control the means of distribution. Uncreative product managers at platform companies target the most successful apps first. You can pick the winners of the evolutionary process, take a skim while you're learning and then copy them with something using private APIs. I don't think that's wrong necessarily but people seem shocked every time it happe…

Then what’s the point of even building an app if it’s going to be ripped off as soon as gets traction? I sometimes wonder what the iOS ecosystem would look like if Apple took stewardship of the App Store seriously. If developers weren’t constantly under threat of some bogus copycat app or IP theft from Apple, what would that do the app ecosystem? It’s hard to see how it would hurt Apple, but perhaps I’m blind to the…

> if it’s going to be ripped off as soon as gets traction

Isn't this called "competition", and isn't the scope of protections you're seeking covered under trademark law?

Re: Apple Dominates App Store Search Results, Thwarting Competitors

#32

Post by supernova87a »

Drew_ wrote: post #18
supernova87a wrote: post #14

And could someone please explain where there's an expectation of equal access and right to appear with a certain preference in a closed app store's search results? Or not to have your app's functionality copied by anyone else?

There's an expectation when your platform is the only option. This wouldn't be a problem at all if Apple allowed alternative app stores. Since that is not allowed, any anticompetitive behavior they exhibit in their store is ripe for a lawsuit. Apple has a 100% monopoly on the distribution of ALL iOS software.

Sure, but as others have pointed out, it depends on what you consider the market. Apple does not have a monopoly on the distribution of phone apps. Just iPhone.

When does the thing someone created become a public good with rights to equal access?

Re: Apple Dominates App Store Search Results, Thwarting Competitors

#33

Post by supernova87a »

moron4hire wrote: post #20
supernova87a wrote: post #14

And could someone please explain where there's an expectation of equal access and right to appear with a certain preference in a closed app store's search results? Or not to have your app's functionality copied by anyone else?

Apple wants to claim the App Store is just a store, that it being closed and no option to install another store does not equal monopolistic tactics. That can only fly if they also don't abuse their privileged position to undercut app competitors. It's no different than Standard Oil giving itself preferential shipment prices on the rails. This is text-book anti-competitive behavior. So yes, in a regulated environment…

Not all anti-competitive behavior is illegal, or wrong. What I'm interested in is when does a company's territory become a public right to insist that others have access?

Starbucks coffee shops give preferential treatment to Starbucks products, and not to others. Can you claim a similar right to have access to sell your goods through their stores?

Re: Apple Dominates App Store Search Results, Thwarting Competitors

#34

Post by supernova87a »

asr wrote: post #30
supernova87a wrote: post #14

And could someone please explain where there's an expectation of equal access and right to appear with a certain preference in a closed app store's search results? Or not to have your app's functionality copied by anyone else?

Your question is worded to suggest you are not actually open to the answer, but I will try anyway: in antitrust law. You cannot create an open App Store ecosystem, invite in outside developers, and then pivot and kill them all off by steering customers to your own app. Closing off your previously-open ecosystem can be illegal. Read Eastman Kodak Co. v. Image Technical Servs.

I am open to explanations. I'm especially interested in how a phone manufacturer that is 3rd place among others can be said to have a monopoly over the market. Or do you mean just for iPhone apps? Because at that point, how fine do you get to dice it to find a monopoly? I'm sure that once you slice it thin enough, almost any company can be said to have a monopoly. Where does it end? Joe's Pizza has a monopoly on the sale of pizza on the 300 block of Main Street, and has been trying to keep out competitors by buying the store next door.

Re: Apple Dominates App Store Search Results, Thwarting Competitors

#36

Post by speg »

mooreds wrote: post #16
whatshisface wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One obvious downside would be that Apple could no longer copy the most successful apps and make money from them.

They make money from the most successful apps that aren't theirs, though. 30% is admittedly less than 100%, but if the market is 4x, Apple wins more with the former. Also, the 30% doesn't require much developer time (sure, you have to maintain the app store, but that is amortized over many many apps).

100% of $0 is always going to be less than the 30% cut. I seek out Apple apps as they're usually of better quality, and not going to be ridden with cruft and most if not all of their consumer level apps are free.

Re: Apple Dominates App Store Search Results, Thwarting Competitors

#37

Post by lxcid »

skizm wrote: post #35

Serious question: how is this different than a grocery story making their own cheaper versions of products and placing them in better locations throughout their store? Large grocery chains do this on a large scale today, right?

Hmmm, one could choose other grocery stores to distribute their products but developers can only distribute their app in one store.

If you spent months or years developing an app and apple reject it, you have no way to go. You can’t make it android or web without significant rework. Even if it is accepted, it might get sherlocked by Apple in WWDC. Not to mention your app could break every year at this time round when new iOS is released.

This is the risk of an indie iOS developers and the risk have not lessen over the years.

Here one heartbreaking post from an indie developer:

https://qnoid.com/2019/09/06/Apple-Developer.html

Re: Apple Dominates App Store Search Results, Thwarting Competitors

#38

Post by save_ferris »

bradshaw1965 wrote: post #15
save_ferris wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then what’s the point of even building an app if it’s going to be ripped off as soon as gets traction? I sometimes wonder what the iOS ecosystem would look like if Apple took stewardship of the App Store seriously. If developers weren’t constantly under threat of some bogus copycat app or IP theft from Apple, what would that do the app ecosystem? It’s hard to see how it would hurt Apple, but perhaps I’m blind to the…

What's the point of even building a website if Google is just going to scrape the information and put in a SERP? You need to add value and build a relationship with your customer.

It’s kinda hard to do that when the company who controls the platform you’re developing on is also building relationships with your customers, and can add far more lifetime value than you ever could building your app.

How many people do you think ditched their iPhones when Spotify published their antitrust complaint towards Apple? And Spotify is a huge company itself.

Anything you can do, the platform owner can do better, and this is particularly true in Apple’s case.

Re: Apple Dominates App Store Search Results, Thwarting Competitors

#39

Post by moron4hire »

supernova87a wrote: post #33
moron4hire wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple wants to claim the App Store is just a store, that it being closed and no option to install another store does not equal monopolistic tactics. That can only fly if they also don't abuse their privileged position to undercut app competitors. It's no different than Standard Oil giving itself preferential shipment prices on the rails. This is text-book anti-competitive behavior. So yes, in a regulated environment…

Not all anti-competitive behavior is illegal, or wrong. What I'm interested in is when does a company's territory become a public right to insist that others have access? Starbucks coffee shops give preferential treatment to Starbucks products, and not to others. Can you claim a similar right to have access to sell your goods through their stores?

Starbucks doesn't have a monopoly on coffee shops, neither do they have an easy way out preventing their customers from going to other coffee shops. Apple iOS users need to spend hundreds of dollars for a new Android device and new apps to get out of their situation.

You're also moving the goal post. This particular issue isn't about access to the store at all, it's about Apple giving itself preferential treatment.

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