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American Phrase Book

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Re: American Phrase Book

#161

Post by 9nGQluzmnq3M »

LandR wrote: post #86
wenderen wrote: post #16

I got bit by "How's it going / How are you?" when I first came to the USA. Turns out you're not actually supposed to answer with how you really are, and if you do so, they look at you like you've said something weird.

This is such a weird thing isn't it. It's like this in the UK too, every conversation starts with "How are you?" "Fine, how are you?" "Fine." It's always the same, pretty much. It's daft, it's just like a ritual that everyone is happy to partake in. No one is actually asking you how you are, it's just a noise that both parties have agreed to start each conversation with. No actual information gets exchanged. You coul…

As geeks we've already developed the optimal handshake: SYN, SYN-ACK, ACK.

Re: American Phrase Book

#162

Post by chrisin2d »

LandR wrote: post #86
wenderen wrote: post #16

I got bit by "How's it going / How are you?" when I first came to the USA. Turns out you're not actually supposed to answer with how you really are, and if you do so, they look at you like you've said something weird.

This is such a weird thing isn't it. It's like this in the UK too, every conversation starts with "How are you?" "Fine, how are you?" "Fine." It's always the same, pretty much. It's daft, it's just like a ritual that everyone is happy to partake in. No one is actually asking you how you are, it's just a noise that both parties have agreed to start each conversation with. No actual information gets exchanged. You coul…

It's known as phatic communication. It's not nonsense or noise: it conveys a wealth of information.

It (re-)establishes the relationship between two parties (and to observing parties). You can tell if two people are strangers, friends, or enemies by how they do this ritual.

It signals intention on part of the initiator and receptiveness on part of the responder. If "Hey, how are you?" gets a cold and abrupt "I'm fine." without a reciprocating question, then it's a pretty strong signal that the other party isn't open to further or prolonged conversation.

It's also like a shibboleth. How someone interacts in the ritual can signal how well socialized s/he is and whether s/he's an in-group or out-group member. If you ask someone you don't know very well "How are you?" and s/he immediately begin telling you about the rash on his/her belly and how s/he hate the traffic and the weather, then that might tip you off that s/he doesn't understand your society's social protocols and therefore is either a social misfit or an outsider.

Re: American Phrase Book

#163

Post by sideshowb »

javajosh wrote: post #136
keiferski wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is something of a misunderstanding of American culture. It's far more complex than can be summarized in a HN comment, but it's more accurate to say that American culture prides itself on accessibility, egalitarianism, and a "lack of barriers" more than directness, defined as pure unfiltered honesty, per se. A good example to illustrate this phenomenon: in most American cities, it is considered fairly normal, eve…

>The typical German will rarely engage in spontaneous conversation with a stranger This is true, but there is one great exception: if you are with small children. Many Germans get very warm and smily, and are happy to start talking with you, at least about your kids.

Same in the uk, and also for dogs.

Re: American Phrase Book

#164

Post by anotherevan »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #23

I'd love to see one of these for Australian English, although I don't think it would be possible. Aussies have a love of metaphor a simile that's unmatched in any other dialect of English, especially if you hang out with bogans (basically Australian Rednecks, for lack of a better description). It's basically the opposite of America, where instead of trying to be excessively polite, we try to be excessively offensive.…

There's also a little thing Aussies employ called sarcasm that often goes through to the keeper.

Re: American Phrase Book

#165

Post by shifto »

denzil_correa wrote: post #73
shifto wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not helpful for a Dutch person like me (who are usually very direct) when the IT has been outsourced to India. You ask them to do something, they say yes and when time comes it hasn't been done. This got me so annoyed.

Once you’re dealing with different cultures, it makes sense to adjust your communication accordingly.

I agree, but I had to find this out the hard way as I was a junior back then just rolling with it. I didn't outsource IT but had to live with it.

Re: American Phrase Book

#166

Post by scruple »

asveikau wrote: post #142
coldtea wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've never heard of Americans thinking/saying they were direct. They wont say it for themselves, but it's something very common to hear Americans and foreigners say/write as a fact for Americans in general (ie. the culture). Some areas even compete/praise themselves on how more direct they are (New Yorkers come to mind). Of course, compared to a culture with a lot of innuendo and second guessing required, like e.g.…

> Some areas even compete/praise themselves on how more direct they are (New Yorkers come to mind). In the US I frequently cite that I am an east coaster to explain why I don't play the politeness game as in this phrasebook, and people seem to accept that explanation. (Or perhaps they say they accept it but don't give a shit, as some of the phrasebook might suggest.)

Likewise, I often explain to people that I'm from the midwest. Sometimes it helps cut through the bullshit, sometimes it doesn't.

Re: American Phrase Book

#167

Post by NeedMoreTea »

ivanhoe wrote: post #103
sl1ck731 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never heard of Americans thinking/saying they were direct. In my case I see our culture as the opposite, as this page seems to demonstrate. Corporate double-speak is a well-known thing here (I presume its similar in many places, but I don't know), and I'm sure most people like me were taught "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all". A common trope in child programs when I grew up was th…

Well, it all depends who you compare to. I too heard many times of Americans being direct, but usually it's said in comparison to British people, and in that case it's fairly true I guess. On the other hand, compared to say Mediterranean or Balkans, no, you're not direct at all :)

I don't think more direct at all. Perhaps more direct than southerners, particularly London, but hardly compared to northerners or Scots. More determined to bring overstatement and excess superlatives certainly, while British are the inverse and overdo the understatement.

"This is good" En-GB: "Not bad, I 'spose", "it'll do" En-US: "Awesome man, incredible", "I'm excited you asked, amazing"

I will retire never having used "exciting" in a work context. :)

With apologies to both sides of the Atlantic.

Re: American Phrase Book

#168

Post by plorkyeran »

dvirsky wrote: post #82

As a non American, I sometimes just enjoy deliberately messing a bit with Americans when they utter these expressions, by doing it over the top. Someone meeting me for some boring work related thingie: "Hi! How are you doing?" Me: "Super awesome, thanks so much for asking! Super excited to meet you and discuss this!". They probably think I'm crazy and/or are not sure what to make of it, so it's fun to see the puzzled…

I've met plenty of people who respond like that without it being a joke, so if you're going for over-the-top you're undershooting the mark quite a bit.

Re: American Phrase Book

#169

Post by blaser-waffle »

yati wrote: post #112
keiferski wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is something of a misunderstanding of American culture. It's far more complex than can be summarized in a HN comment, but it's more accurate to say that American culture prides itself on accessibility, egalitarianism, and a "lack of barriers" more than directness, defined as pure unfiltered honesty, per se. A good example to illustrate this phenomenon: in most American cities, it is considered fairly normal, eve…

This resonates with my recent experience. I'm Indian, but I live in Europe, and during a recent trip to the US, I was amazed by how easy going the people were. I was able to have nice conversations with random locals. From a nice uncle spontaneously telling us about the history of Santa Cruz to a stranger helping us park the car properly in SF, to jolly waiters in restaurants, it all felt very human. I find it quite…

Plenty of US cities aren't like that. You're going to get a wayyy different response talking to random people on the NYC public transit than in SF. Seattle has the infamous "Freeze", and DC has that government contractor omerta thing going on.

Santa Cruz is a whole 'nother creature too.

Re: American Phrase Book

#170

Post by pwinnski »

coldtea wrote: post #104
keiferski wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-Americans always harp on this yet don't understand that "How are you?" is just functioning as a generic "Hello" and not as a literal question. This happens in every language with various phrases. For example, the phrase for "Hello" in most European languages directly translates to "Good Day." It is not as if people are saying "Good Day" in any literal sense of the words; the meaning implied is "Hello."

> Non-Americans always harp on this yet don't understand that "How are you?" is just functioning as a generic "Hello" and not as a literal question. This happens in every language with various phrases. We very much understand that. Our problem/concern/issue is that you don't seem to expect/appreciate the outpour of how one has been in the first place, whereas elsewhere it's a natural part of meeting the other person.…

"Hello"

"I've had a rough week, my dog died and I'm having trouble focusing at work. Hello to you, too."

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