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NSA Official: We Need to Prepare for the Future of War

nytimes.com

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Re: NSA Official: We Need to Prepare for the Future of War

#71

Post by NotAnEconomist »

rafaelvasco wrote: post #61

No, in my opinion, we need to start working so that wars don't even make sense. A concept of the distant past. A future in which our descendants don't even know what wars are. In my vision there are no legitimate reasons for wars to exist at all. Of course this concept will sound alien and completely nuts for the majority, who are still in the fear based mindset; But then you can ask: So how do we protect ourselves f…

So, you don't actually know how either.

It's trite and cheap to demand change you don't know how to do.

Re: NSA Official: We Need to Prepare for the Future of War

#72

Post by coldtea »

ajay-d wrote: post #50
HenryKissinger wrote: post #21

That states like China and Russia can recruit the best cybersecurity talent in their respective countries, and force them to work for the government, while the United States can't, is a problem. If I were the president, I would focus on talent recruitment and retention. Google is paying its top cyberstaff 700k? Offer them 1M. Also get rid of archaic hiring practices like drug tests, and streamline the process to obta…

Russia also recruits cyber criminals, offering reduced sentences if they work for the government[1] "The cellmate said that people incarcerated for cybercrimes could get out before trial, in exchange for working for the government. Another inmate had already taken a deal, he said. “It was an offer to cooperate,” Mr. Artimovich said. “Why else would you work for the government?” he added. “The salaries are tiny. But i…

You think that's some kind of exception? All kinds of cyber criminals also work for western governments/agencies as consultants. E.g.:

"Since 2000, Mitnick has been a paid security consultant, public speaker and author. He does security consulting for Fortune 500 companies and the FBI, performs penetration testing services for the world's largest companies and teaches Social Engineering classes to dozens of companies and government agencies."

Re: NSA Official: We Need to Prepare for the Future of War

#73

Post by decoyworker »

This is huge and is a subject I feel strongly about- especially for defense software.

Parts of the US Government are already sounding the alarm over this. see- https://innovation.defense.gov/software/

Basically, we are too slow. The contract acquisition process and waterfall development moves at a glacial pace. I have some serious doubts we will ever adapt since it would require a restructuring of the way our defense industry operates.

Re: NSA Official: We Need to Prepare for the Future of War

#74

Post by dx87 »

bilbo0s wrote: post #58
ajay-d wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia also recruits cyber criminals, offering reduced sentences if they work for the government[1] "The cellmate said that people incarcerated for cybercrimes could get out before trial, in exchange for working for the government. Another inmate had already taken a deal, he said. “It was an offer to cooperate,” Mr. Artimovich said. “Why else would you work for the government?” he added. “The salaries are tiny. But i…

Yeah, but we are almost certainly doing this already as well. So there's no advantage to be gained there. If a cyber criminal is valuable enough, ie-not a script kiddie, we're already making the offers. We need ideas that are somewhat out of the box. Something that isn't already being done that we can start doing to bolster our capabilities.

AFAIK we aren't doing that. Once you've been caught doing criminal activity, you pretty much have no chance of getting the security clearance required to do cyber work for the government. They're willing to overlook criminal activity if you are up front about it and have never been caught, but any sort of criminal record is a showstopper for cleared government work.

Re: NSA Official: We Need to Prepare for the Future of War

#75

Post by zzzeek »

14 wrote: post #56

Such a bleak picture of the future where the only solution is for all of us to give up our privacy and allow the government to watch us so they can keep us safe. There are so many rants I could go off on this article I would not even know where to start but I will say this. What about the option of peace building? Why not put 1/3 of your insane military budget towards a new mission of going into the places you have t…

> Why not put 1/3 of your insane military budget towards a new mission of going into the places you have the worst reputation, the places you have wronged the most and start building up their infrastructure like water plants and schools?

The critique you refer towards is familiar when we talk about terrorism operations that spin off from less powerful nations, and for many years the "war on terror" has been about detecting such small scale operations that can definitely be traced to all the nasty things the US has done for many decades.

However, this article is mostly referring to Russia and China as the most critical actors in this style of warfare; these are relatively large and powerful nations who have shown to be adversarially aggressive to the US and many other nations so I'm not sure how there would be "peace" with them other than allowing them to continue to wreak havoc in their neighboring nations and territories unchecked, not to mention that they would continue to launch direct attacks on our internal processes, which wouldn't actually prevent a world conflict from occurring, only hasten its arrival. We have already been attacked quite severely in this regard with great success.

Re: NSA Official: We Need to Prepare for the Future of War

#76

Post by lern_too_spel »

hos234 wrote: post #70
HenryKissinger wrote: post #11

> There are four key implications of this revolution that policymakers in the national security sector will need to address: > The first is that the unprecedented scale and pace of technological change will outstrip our ability to effectively adapt to it. Second, we will be in a world of ceaseless and pervasive cyberinsecurity and cyberconflict against nation-states, businesses and individuals. Third, the flood of da…

Translates to - We don't know what we are doing or why but please keep funding us. Henry Kissinger pls talk to Kim Kardashian, and the marketing departments of the world. They will have better ideas on how to fight the next war than anyone who has traditionally fought one. What ever you do don't talk to techies. As Chinese Intelligence is showcasing in Hong Kong, building giant machinery that vacuums up oceans of dat…

Hong Kong is outside the great firewall.

Re: NSA Official: We Need to Prepare for the Future of War

#77

Post by mtgx »

umvi wrote: post #42
HenryKissinger wrote: post #21

That states like China and Russia can recruit the best cybersecurity talent in their respective countries, and force them to work for the government, while the United States can't, is a problem. If I were the president, I would focus on talent recruitment and retention. Google is paying its top cyberstaff 700k? Offer them 1M. Also get rid of archaic hiring practices like drug tests, and streamline the process to obta…

Well, NSA used to have the best and brightest until Snowden. Now NSA can't get the best and brightest because they are conscientious objectors.

So first things first: NSA needs to stop abusing its powers so that people can actually be proud to work for it?

Stop spying on and collecting all of "Random Joe's" emails and chats, and start targeting people who are actual threats to national security (and don't misinterpret any random petty crime as "national security issue" to give you an excuse to abuse those powers either).

Economic espionage or to help corporate friends should never happen either. No, it doesn't matter that "China does it, too".

Re: NSA Official: We Need to Prepare for the Future of War

#78

Post by gnusty_gnurc »

situational87 wrote: post #14
pluma wrote: post #3

Maybe the US would do well to obsess a little less about wars? After spending 90%+ of its time existing on being at war, it sure would seem like a good time to take a break and stop attacking other countries maybe.

We just admitted defeat in Afghanistan after 18 years of.. what was the mission again? Build a government? Build the Afghan National Army? We cut out both of those groups from peace talks with the Taliban this year. We tried to keep the talks secret from the government you're negotiating peace about. I can't imagine a more awkward way to discover that mission has been a failure. This has turned into a Vietnam-scale b…

People generally disagree with me, but I think the absolute failure of our administrative state to get _anything_ right poured gasoline on the fire that is general distrust in government. It was way too easy for someone like Trump to just repeat "Iraq" on stage to remind everyone that "the experts" have failed us in spectacular ways.

Re: NSA Official: We Need to Prepare for the Future of War

#79

Post by brnt »

rafaelvasco wrote: post #61

No, in my opinion, we need to start working so that wars don't even make sense. A concept of the distant past. A future in which our descendants don't even know what wars are. In my vision there are no legitimate reasons for wars to exist at all. Of course this concept will sound alien and completely nuts for the majority, who are still in the fear based mindset; But then you can ask: So how do we protect ourselves f…

That discussion is pointless without a definition of war. If you read some of what Moscovite thinktanks/ideologists produce, you'll find very little about guns and arms, but a lot on psychology and influencing.

War to them is total war. There is no difference. Everything can be weaponized and will be used. There is no choice.

Changing that line of thinking is first very different from western lines of thinking. Second, I'd say peace-movements in such environs have yet to take root, let alone produce the progress the West has seen since Vietnam.

Re: NSA Official: We Need to Prepare for the Future of War

#80

Post by ativzzz »

The author's last key implication,

> Finally, and perhaps most ominously, the digital revolution has the potential for a pernicious effect on the very legitimacy and thus stability of our governmental and societal structures.

But they then proceed to say things like

> Will Western liberal democracies, already straining under the combined demands of decaying civil infrastructure, aging populations, upgrading militaries and so on, be able to afford these investments? Given that there is no specific forcing event to require greater resources, but rather a trend, history suggests that we will appreciate the seriousness of the underinvestment only when a crisis has occurred.

Meaning that currently, our system of government is simply not built to deal with modern technology. Yet they state that the fundamental threat of forcing change within societal and governmental structure is 'ominous', while at the same time implying that it is absolutely necessary.

Discarding stability and tradition for the sake of progress is inevitable, and will happen either deliberately, through policy (this rarely happens), or by revolution.

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