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Ballerina, a language with structural type system

v1-0.ballerina.io

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Re: Ballerina, a language with structural type system

#41

Post by afiori »

skybrian wrote: post #11
yoz wrote: post #8

Excerpted quote from their launch blog post ( https://blog.ballerina.io/posts/annoucing-1.0.0/ ): > That obviously starts with the Enterprise Integrator team as that is where this baby was flirted with, dated and then conceived; This is what happens when people think that coding is hard but writing is easy. WSO2: Please, on behalf of innocent eyeball-owners everywhere, hire a dedicated content editor.

Also, the front page ends with a picture of someone massaging a programmer's shoulders.

I understand their idea, but that is not something to be expected by a ballerina

Re: Ballerina, a language with structural type system

#42

Post by rurban »

sanjiva wrote: post #39
orthoxerox wrote: post #19

Like other WSO2 stuff, Ballerina suffers from too many almost complete features. As I see it, they can hire dozens of coders in Sri Lanka, but don't have a good product management team that can turn a 95% complete feature into a market-ready one.

I'm the founder of WSO2. I'm from Sri Lanka. We have 100s of coders from Sri Lanka (not dozens). I'm the creator of Ballerina. I'm now its product manager. Ballerina is in its first GA release. Please elaborate on what features you see as "almost complete"? And regards to your comment about WSO2's inability to produce market-ready products, we have 500+ customers from all over the world for our products. What do we n…

Hi Sanjiva, I'm impressed. Of the product, and that you have that many excellent Java coders in Sri Lanka. Didn't expect that.

Java really needs a safe structurally typed product. What are the major differences to Scala?

Re: Ballerina, a language with structural type system

#43

Post by kybernetikos »

kensai wrote: post #25
webkike wrote: post #23

I can’t say much about the language, but I think the image at the bottom is somewhat inappropriate. Why is there a woman massaging a man while he uses a computer? I understand that this is to illustrate comfort, but this is not an appropriate way to illustrate that

Is this some kind of snowflake joke I don't get? These are cartoons. Jesus, have become so sensitive to everything? (forgive me in advance, but I don't understand what the problem is... a man massaging a woman would have been better? a man massaging a man? a woman massaging a woman? two robots perhaps? what would not make people more comfortable?)

In an entirely neutral culture it'd be fine. In a culture that says that women aren't programmers, it perpetuates a common narrative that women are for display and support but not for real work. It's not helped by the picture above it where the ballerina is pictured with batteries.

Taken all together it seems to suggest that women are objects and that this is a product for men.

Yes, we're all being hyper sensitive about it, and it's likely that nothing negative was intended but it's something that we could do with having a bit of sensitivity about, given that it costs us so little and our current level of sensitivity has made the culture so hostile to women.

Re: Ballerina, a language with structural type system

#44

Post by pjmlp »

solarkraft wrote: post #17
Davidbrcz wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SCADE provides textual and graphical views that are synchronized and it's widely used in industrial critical embedded software such as airplane in airbus.

Why (do you think) is it only used there and hasn't made its way too the main stream (yet)?

I would consider EE, video production and game development mainstream, all domains are heavier users of visual languages.

Re: Ballerina, a language with structural type system

#45

Post by smt88 »

kensai wrote: post #25
webkike wrote: post #23

I can’t say much about the language, but I think the image at the bottom is somewhat inappropriate. Why is there a woman massaging a man while he uses a computer? I understand that this is to illustrate comfort, but this is not an appropriate way to illustrate that

Is this some kind of snowflake joke I don't get? These are cartoons. Jesus, have become so sensitive to everything? (forgive me in advance, but I don't understand what the problem is... a man massaging a woman would have been better? a man massaging a man? a woman massaging a woman? two robots perhaps? what would not make people more comfortable?)

There is controversy about literally this exact thing in China's software culture[1].

> Jesus, have become so sensitive to everything?

What you call "being so sensitive" can also just mean that people are being considerate. The people suggesting the photo is inappropriate are not "triggered" or "offended" or whatever. They just seem to understand that the photo evokes real cultural problems and can easily be changed.

Why do you seem to be so offended on behalf of the picture?

1. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/24/business/china-women-tech...

Re: Ballerina, a language with structural type system

#46

Post by tasuki »

sanjiva wrote: post #33
kcmastrpc wrote: post #12

I've been to several dozen technology conferences the past two years and these folks show up with a fancy large booth and nice swag and I'm simply amazed at the presentation and effort they've put into this undertaking. My understanding is that the primary motivation all of this is consultancy work in India.

I'm the founder of WSO2 which developed Ballerina. Also the person who started the project and lead it. WSO2 is an enterprise software product company with 500+ customers in 70+ countries and 600 employees globally. We promoted Ballerina like that because we are proud of the work we do and wanted to show it off to people. You may not like the work we produce but trying to say its to get "consultancy work in India" is…

> I'm the founder of WSO2 which developed Ballerina. Also the person who started the project and lead it.

Congrats and thank you!

> We promoted Ballerina like that because we are proud of the work we do and wanted to show it off to people.

And rightly proud!

> You may not like the work we produce but trying to say its to get "consultancy work in India" is rather racist.

Saying it's to get "consultancy work in India" might be wrong (you promote Ballerina because you're proud of your work), but I fail to see how it's racist. Even if it was true, it wouldn't be racist.

Re: Ballerina, a language with structural type system

#47

Post by Accacin »

kybernetikos wrote: post #43
kensai wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this some kind of snowflake joke I don't get? These are cartoons. Jesus, have become so sensitive to everything? (forgive me in advance, but I don't understand what the problem is... a man massaging a woman would have been better? a man massaging a man? a woman massaging a woman? two robots perhaps? what would not make people more comfortable?)

In an entirely neutral culture it'd be fine. In a culture that says that women aren't programmers, it perpetuates a common narrative that women are for display and support but not for real work. It's not helped by the picture above it where the ballerina is pictured with batteries. Taken all together it seems to suggest that women are objects and that this is a product for men. Yes, we're all being hyper sensitive ab…

Eloquently put. I agree.

Re: Ballerina, a language with structural type system

#48

Post by llarsson »

rdhananjaya wrote: post #38
deamon_lang wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you execute OS exec with this language? I tried to do the integration with a legacy app and gave up.

Here you go, https://v1-0.ballerina.io/learn/api-docs/ballerina/system/in...

I browse with JavaScript off, and I can't scroll on that site. Could you degrade it more gracefully, please? It's a documentation site, after all, not something that should be design heavy.

Re: Ballerina, a language with structural type system

#49

Post by _8ljf »

yoz wrote: post #8

Excerpted quote from their launch blog post ( https://blog.ballerina.io/posts/annoucing-1.0.0/ ): > That obviously starts with the Enterprise Integrator team as that is where this baby was flirted with, dated and then conceived; This is what happens when people think that coding is hard but writing is easy. WSO2: Please, on behalf of innocent eyeball-owners everywhere, hire a dedicated content editor.

You don’t even need to read past the product name. Like a lot of geeks they just don’t have a clue how to sell, nor how to hire talent that can. There is no part of their branding that is not a straight disaster. (And that shoulder massage…oy.)

Look, real ballerinas are totally hardcore badass atheletes who could easily kick all our flabby nerd asses while standing on one toe, and I take my hat off to them for what they do. But how many professional software developers will really want to self-identify as “ballerinas” when discussing between themselves, never mind pitching to board rooms?

(Outside of the programmers-who-already-happily-self-identify-as-bronies subset, of course.)

Doubly so when the actual product looks as agile and graceful as a household broom.

Triply so when they can’t even do simple web pages right. (Just try the inline links on the Community page.) Or try the learn-by-example page, which spends seconds looking completely blank until some pointless Web 2.0 crap eventually loads in a perfectly static TOC.

I mean, I was prepared to overlook the marketing catastrophe just to read about their much vaunted take on structural typing (which is highly relevant to my interests), but this simple lack of technical competence means I am not going to waste any more time.

Money says the whole thing immediately sinks without trace, and none involved will ever be any the wiser why. What a pointless waste of effort.

Re: Ballerina, a language with structural type system

#50

Post by esyir »

kybernetikos wrote: post #43
kensai wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this some kind of snowflake joke I don't get? These are cartoons. Jesus, have become so sensitive to everything? (forgive me in advance, but I don't understand what the problem is... a man massaging a woman would have been better? a man massaging a man? a woman massaging a woman? two robots perhaps? what would not make people more comfortable?)

In an entirely neutral culture it'd be fine. In a culture that says that women aren't programmers, it perpetuates a common narrative that women are for display and support but not for real work. It's not helped by the picture above it where the ballerina is pictured with batteries. Taken all together it seems to suggest that women are objects and that this is a product for men. Yes, we're all being hyper sensitive ab…

Jesus, that's my definition of oversensitivity. Literally everything, no matter how minor or insignificant gets turned into "this is driving women out of the industry".
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