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Maturity

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Re: Maturity

#21

Post by Operyl »

sytse wrote: post #19
Operyl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, can you shed some light on how the actual prioritization works? There are some bugs, one specifically I've mentioned elsewhere, that just get infinitely shoved into the void.

The Product Manager (in the case Jason Lenny who is out of office today) prioritizes between bugs, vulnerabilities, new features, and tech debt. He or she uses customer input, user input, and company input. Read more on https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/product/#prioritization To find the relevant Product Manager see https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/product/categories/

So, the unfortunate reality of prioritizing customer wants like this is that you're always going to focus on big shiny new features, and not quite so much the smaller (while still important) bug fixes that really need consideration I feel. I felt like I got shoved into a black hole, and it does not inspire faith in your product anymore. Even if I did become a customer, which I was seriously considering before this, we're going to be "too small" to make a dent compared to your bigger customer base.

Re: Maturity

#22

Post by sytse »

uluc_aydin wrote: post #11

I'm curious, is this an open-source component? I like the way they visualize the maturity of their products.

We use Chart.js for this. Credit goes to Josh Lambert who made this.

Re: Maturity

#23

Post by sytse »

atsaloli wrote: post #6

> Lovable: Provides an elevated user experience that customers love as measured by NPS. NPS = Net Promoter Score https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_Promoter

Correct, to be specific we measure PNPS https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/product/metrics/#paid-net-...

We'll try to link from the legend but since it is automatically generated this is hard.

Re: Maturity

#24

Post by sytse »

Operyl wrote: post #21
sytse wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Product Manager (in the case Jason Lenny who is out of office today) prioritizes between bugs, vulnerabilities, new features, and tech debt. He or she uses customer input, user input, and company input. Read more on https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/product/#prioritization To find the relevant Product Manager see https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/product/categories/

So, the unfortunate reality of prioritizing customer wants like this is that you're always going to focus on big shiny new features, and not quite so much the smaller (while still important) bug fixes that really need consideration I feel. I felt like I got shoved into a black hole, and it does not inspire faith in your product anymore. Even if I did become a customer, which I was seriously considering before this, w…

Existing customers tend to prioritize stability (fixing bugs) over new features.

Please note that even if you're not a customer our issue trackers are open so you can @mention the Product Manager to help them understand the severity and help to diagnose and fix things if you're so inclined.

Re: Maturity

#25

Post by sytse »

archon810 wrote: post #5

This is beautiful. Made me think of https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful , so I submitted it there https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/d1xqfz/git... .

Thanks for submitting it!

Re: Maturity

#26

Post by Operyl »

sytse wrote: post #24
Operyl wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, the unfortunate reality of prioritizing customer wants like this is that you're always going to focus on big shiny new features, and not quite so much the smaller (while still important) bug fixes that really need consideration I feel. I felt like I got shoved into a black hole, and it does not inspire faith in your product anymore. Even if I did become a customer, which I was seriously considering before this, w…

Existing customers tend to prioritize stability (fixing bugs) over new features. Please note that even if you're not a customer our issue trackers are open so you can @mention the Product Manager to help them understand the severity and help to diagnose and fix things if you're so inclined.

As seen in https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-runner/issues/4029, a few people did show frustration, and why. And then began the never ending push back after push back.

Re: Maturity

#27

Post by ori_b »

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #8

I was sucked in by Gitlab's feature list and marketing. But holy shit so many things are half assed and so many features are buggy and broken. Like their wikis would sometimes just straight up delete text and their webhooks would break images. I started a bunch of issues but they really have no chance of getting fixed anytime soon. Just shows how different your impression of something is after actually using it.

I don't really use gitlab, but I wrote my own git implementation recently (https://github.com/oridb/git9), and I've had bug reports when people tried to use it on gitlab.

Apparently it can deadlock processes on the server, stopping the clone -- and they never get cleaned up. While they don't prevent anyone else from using the machine, they do sit around wasting resources, and potentially causing a denial of service attack.

I figured out bugs for github's issues, but I haven't been able to find one for gitlab's, and they've been pretty silent on the bug that someone else filed about this as far as I can tell.

It didn't feel like a particularly easy to trace system when I tried debugging.

Re: Maturity

#28

Post by Aeolun »

Cool, requirements management is coming!

Not cool, it’s only in Ultimate. No way am I going to be able to get my company to shell out for that.

Re: Maturity

#29

Post by mikepurvis »

sytse wrote: post #17
KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #8

I was sucked in by Gitlab's feature list and marketing. But holy shit so many things are half assed and so many features are buggy and broken. Like their wikis would sometimes just straight up delete text and their webhooks would break images. I started a bunch of issues but they really have no chance of getting fixed anytime soon. Just shows how different your impression of something is after actually using it.

The wiki is GitLab should not delete text, please file a bug if you had dataloss. The current state of the wiki isn't great but we're also not seeing a lot of people care about it. Many people are switching to static websites. Therefore we're not investing to get the wiki better than the current state of a half circle. BTW We've recently measured experience baselines in GitLab and we agree we still have a lot of work…

Perhaps an argument for focusing on doing a few things well?

I work for a GitLab shop, but we don't use the bugtracker (Jira) or wiki (Confluence), we mostly don't use the CI (Jenkins is just more flexible), and we definitely don't use the container stuff. We currently do use the review workflow but at various points have considered moving to a different tool for that as well.

So yeah, we would have been fine with a GitLab that did less— a lot less, and instead prioritized supplying first class integration points and supported plugins for other best-in-class tools.

Re: Maturity

#30

Post by lbotos »

Operyl wrote: post #15
lbotos wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a link to an issue for this? I work on the Support Engineering team and while our central mandate is not committing code, I think this could be something we could address quickly.

https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-runner/issues/4029

Thanks! I messaged some of my teammates to see if they can take a crack at it.

Thanks for the issue!

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