Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for posting this. I don't understand how the US can go in and decide BTC-e was a money laundering op and then confiscate bitcoins and put people in jail. Who decides who gets those bitcoins? Surely many other countries have money laundering laws. What makes the US so special that they can go flip a business operating in the Ukraine?
> What makes the US so special that they can go flip a business operating in the Ukraine? Because no one is able to stop them.
94k Bitcoin (1B USD) transferred from unknown wallet to unknown wallet
481–490 of 747 posts
Re: 94k Bitcoin (1B USD) transferred from unknown wallet to unknown wallet
#482Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It effectively establishes a billion dollar bounty for any party who can rewrite enough blocks to erase it. I don't really agree with that statement. Yes, someone could mount a 51% attack to rewrite that block. However, it would be pretty straightforward to see what was happening (and which nodes were the malicious actors). If that did happen, the possible outcomes would be: 1. The value of bitcoin would fall to ba…
the amount of trivialization and conflation irks me 1. "51% attack" is not a thing as in "one has to have 51% of hashpower to perform it". it's just that with 51% of hashpower it becomes relatively cheap to perform such attack. one can throw enough money at the problem and get lucky to perform large reorg with just 10% of hashpower. the lower the number - the more lucky attacker has to get. 2. "rewriting a block" or…
The qualitative difference is that with 51% of hashpower you can sustain the attack indefinitely. Other miners might get the occasional block and temporarily take the lead but in the long run you'll always have the longest chain using only blocks you've mined yourself.
With less than 50% there's a chance that you can revert a transaction temporarily by mining two consecutive blocks (one to omit the transaction and another to make your chain longer than the original) in less time than it takes the main network to reach the same block height, but the odds of maintaining the attack drop by at least half with each additional block. The main network will always win eventually.
In any case no one controls anywhere close to 51% of the hashpower right now. There are pools which approach that size but they aren't monolithic entities; if the pool operators attempted to leverage their position as coordinators to carry out a sustained attack then miners would leave the pool.
Re: 94k Bitcoin (1B USD) transferred from unknown wallet to unknown wallet
#483I'd take issue on two points. First, "wallets' don't exist in the Bitcoin protocol. Second, the tool being used is not sophisticated enough to list the inputs and outputs, giving the false impression that something unusual is "unknown." Try this link to get details: https://blockstream.info/tx/4410c8d14ff9f87ceeed1d65cb58e7c7... There are numerous inputs and a single pay-to-script-hash (P2SH) output. The relatively h…
> It effectively establishes a billion dollar bounty for any party who can rewrite enough blocks to erase it. To do what exactly? Nobody can redirect the transaction to themselves and the best they can do is erase it. 51% attacking the network will cost you a lot , and you won't actually win anything in your attack. Even if the owner of the coins is the attacker, you can only win by double-spending the transaction by…
Re: 94k Bitcoin (1B USD) transferred from unknown wallet to unknown wallet
#484Earlier quoted context omitted.
Penny Pinching does not make people rich and is not "often" why they're rich. This is a horrible misconception.
It sounds like you may hold the misconception. Only ~12% of millionaires inherited their wealth. The remainder are "self-made", in that they lived below their means, and saved.
The amount you can create via saving is minuscule compared to starting a business, investment banking, being a lawyer etc. Work creates wealth.
Side note, many of the people I know who are wealthy enjoy spending it which is the antithesis of penny pinching.
Re: 94k Bitcoin (1B USD) transferred from unknown wallet to unknown wallet
#485I'd take issue on two points. First, "wallets' don't exist in the Bitcoin protocol. Second, the tool being used is not sophisticated enough to list the inputs and outputs, giving the false impression that something unusual is "unknown." Try this link to get details: https://blockstream.info/tx/4410c8d14ff9f87ceeed1d65cb58e7c7... There are numerous inputs and a single pay-to-script-hash (P2SH) output. The relatively h…
... accomplishing exactly nothing as all that would do would be returning the money to original spenders. Really, the amount of misinformation floating here is unexpected.
> Now that the value resides in a single coin, any subsequent transaction faces the same risk.
Non sequitur. A rollback of such a block would, by significance be somewhere between "mildly annoying" and "introducing suspicion that future transactions could also be rolled back." In any case, coins would end up where they are supposed to, and no theft can be done. There would be increased risk of double spends, but worried parties could always invest in more (legit) hashpower.
> A consortium/trust has formed in which individuals pay into a common pool of money.
Speculation, but reasonable. It makes business sense.
> That money is then protected with a multi signature script (consistent with the P2SH type). Given a threshold of signatures, the money can be spent, subject to other constraints. These will remain unknown until the first payment is made. At that point we'll know the number and identity of all the eligible keys and the threshold needed to make payment.
Speculation, but too wild. Basically wishful thinking.
> Edit: to be clear, the "bounty" I'm talking about can't be directly claimed just by mining some blocks. Instead, it would have to be claimed as part of a double spend of either the transaction in question or as subsequent transaction of the now-enormous output. Most likely, there would be collusion of some kind between a miner and the owner of the keys. I'm not saying this will happen, but the bigger the transaction, the greater the risk.
Again, wild speculation. So the theory is that someone collected $1B in BTC just to pull off a massive double spend stunt? At that level, it's likely that rubber hose cryptanalysis would resolve the issue quite efficiently.
Re: 94k Bitcoin (1B USD) transferred from unknown wallet to unknown wallet
#486Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the fixed income, currency and money markets a billion dollars is not a lot of money -- and yet a billion dollars IS ALWAYS a lot of money. I used to work on the repo desk of a primary dealer. One role of the repo desk is that it finances the banks position. We might hold $50 billion of bonds, but $40 billion of that is borrowed with the bonds as collateral. One day because someone had keyed in a start of day posi…
> Had they failed, the bank would have had to go the the Fed, discount window and borrow $1 billion overnight at the discount rate (which would have been substantially more than we were paying in the repo market.) Additionally, it likely would have triggered process audits and incident reports which would have been far worse than the interest. > because someone had keyed in a start of day position wrong I know basica…
We had good collateral to borrow the the money, but it was the money we needed.
The legal-books-and-records system gave us the right starting number. The transferring it to the trading-book-dashboard was a manual process. So they traded all day based on the wrong number. No one noticed until operations called the desk with about a half hour left in the trading day to say “Do you guys realize you’re short a billion?” Ten minutes to figure out what went wrong. The clerk who keyed in the wrong number didn’t get dinged that badly, cause 8-9 people saw both numbers and no one else noticed.
Re: 94k Bitcoin (1B USD) transferred from unknown wallet to unknown wallet
#487Re: 94k Bitcoin (1B USD) transferred from unknown wallet to unknown wallet
#488Earlier quoted context omitted.
Only if the attack is from the outside, which is not a requirement. It's not mutually exclusive. The miners who control the bitcoin network are already centralized on a handful of organizations in China. If they colluded on this attack they would take over >51% of the network because, hey, they already own and operate most of that computing power you're eluding to. Edit: There is also no evidence that the price would…
Wouldn't Bitcoin lose a lot of value if such an attack happened?
Re: 94k Bitcoin (1B USD) transferred from unknown wallet to unknown wallet
#489Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for posting this. I don't understand how the US can go in and decide BTC-e was a money laundering op and then confiscate bitcoins and put people in jail. Who decides who gets those bitcoins? Surely many other countries have money laundering laws. What makes the US so special that they can go flip a business operating in the Ukraine?
They don't have a right to do it, but there's nothing to stop them. A foreign power can have any law it wants, and no other foreign power has to respect it. You can try to sue them, but sovereign immunity, and foreign sovereign immunity, stops almost all of these attempts. The exceptions generally are human rights abuses (by the same state doing the suing...) and commercial transactions. In this case, the USG stole f…
It may take some time and effort to get the property back, but there is a process.