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Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

latimes.com

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Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#41

Post by roenxi »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #38
H8crilA wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This situation we're in is making me really uneasy. WW2 was preceded by tariffs and a freezing of global trade, which messed up the German economy too much, pushed it into an inflationary debt crisis and eventually created Nazism. Nazism was a response to a perceived foreign threat that "did a lot of damage to our people, and it's time for us to be the best". Say the trade war ends up badly and the Chinese debt bubbl…

Let's not forget that the hyperinflation of the Weimar Republic was, in large part, intentional. They printed money to pay the Versailles reparations, and to inflate them away. Obviously it escalated out of control, but they weren't mere innocent victims of external events.

In a sense all hyperinflations are voluntary because a key part of the dynamic is governments creating truly vast amount of new money.

That being said, the Treaty of Versailles was said to be a pretty obviously punitive treaty. Famously quoted as a "Carthaginian peace" [0]. The Germans needed a party that would stand up and say they weren't going to try and honour the treaty.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#43

Post by NeedMoreTea »

roenxi wrote: post #41
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not forget that the hyperinflation of the Weimar Republic was, in large part, intentional. They printed money to pay the Versailles reparations, and to inflate them away. Obviously it escalated out of control, but they weren't mere innocent victims of external events.

In a sense all hyperinflations are voluntary because a key part of the dynamic is governments creating truly vast amount of new money. That being said, the Treaty of Versailles was said to be a pretty obviously punitive treaty. Famously quoted as a "Carthaginian peace" [0]. The Germans needed a party that would stand up and say they weren't going to try and honour the treaty. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_…

Certainly. It was the French, particularly Foch who insisted on punitive, and later claimed it was too lenient. Keynes wrote a famous book "On the Consequences of Peace" roundly criticising the settlement. Essentially Versailles set in train the events that led to WW2, Nazi party notwithstanding.

Ironically toward the end of WW2, the Americans promoted the Morgenthau Plan that would have barred Germany from nearly all industry, putting them back to an agrarian age and made Versailles look relatively trivial. It almost certainly extended the war. Thankfully once it became widely known it was replaced with the Marshall Plan.

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#44

Post by Fnoord »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #38
H8crilA wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This situation we're in is making me really uneasy. WW2 was preceded by tariffs and a freezing of global trade, which messed up the German economy too much, pushed it into an inflationary debt crisis and eventually created Nazism. Nazism was a response to a perceived foreign threat that "did a lot of damage to our people, and it's time for us to be the best". Say the trade war ends up badly and the Chinese debt bubbl…

Let's not forget that the hyperinflation of the Weimar Republic was, in large part, intentional. They printed money to pay the Versailles reparations, and to inflate them away. Obviously it escalated out of control, but they weren't mere innocent victims of external events.

Germany lost WWI and as part of the peace treaty Germany got the sole blame for it via Treaty of Versailles [1].

I learned at elementary school, if two have a fight, there's two to blame. Never one party. Though the reasoning might not be obvious; it could very well be obfuscated.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#45

Post by Fnoord »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #43
roenxi wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a sense all hyperinflations are voluntary because a key part of the dynamic is governments creating truly vast amount of new money. That being said, the Treaty of Versailles was said to be a pretty obviously punitive treaty. Famously quoted as a "Carthaginian peace" [0]. The Germans needed a party that would stand up and say they weren't going to try and honour the treaty. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_…

Certainly. It was the French, particularly Foch who insisted on punitive, and later claimed it was too lenient. Keynes wrote a famous book "On the Consequences of Peace" roundly criticising the settlement. Essentially Versailles set in train the events that led to WW2, Nazi party notwithstanding. Ironically toward the end of WW2, the Americans promoted the Morgenthau Plan that would have barred Germany from nearly al…

The German series "Babylon Berlin" [1] is a fictive series about the Weimar Republic before the Nazis got to power.

Berlin Alexanderplatz is apparently also about Berlin the 1920s. It is from 1980, by famous director Rainer Werner Fassbinder. The entire miniseries is ~15,5 hours long. I have yet to see it before my death...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon_Berlin

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Alexanderplatz_(miniser...

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#46

Post by skitout »

skitout wrote: post #30

During yellow vest protests, we've seen thing as violent, and France is not China...

I realized my post was not clear. I 100% support HK protester! I 100% condemn HK police and authorities.

Just wanted to point that despite the fact most of us live in democracy, police can act super violently against protestors, and we don't necessarily realize it before it happens. We need to support HK protestor, and also keep fighting for democracy where we live

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#47

Post by VK538FY »

__m wrote: post #10
adamnemecek wrote: post #2

How can people in Europe and US help?

By staying out of it. Hongkong belongs to China just as Catalonia belongs to Spain, or California to the US. Imagine China interfering with that.

I'm probably a bigger fan of self-determination than you: if the people of HK, Catalonia or California wish to follow their own road, I support them, but they need to work that out on their own. When those movements are even partly the product of foreign intervention and are given uncritical coverage in the western press, that is a giant warning sign. We've been there before many times yet we never learn.

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#48

Post by dragonsh »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #17

What can you do about this? Pretty much nothing. China is the second largest economy in the world, and has the second most powerful military. In addition, what they view as the integrity of China is one of their biggest priorities. In addition, they have always viewed British control of Hong Kong as a national humiliation and are bent on erasing all traces of that memory. The way it stands right now, China can inflic…

Well even though my minority position on this issue will downvote my comment I will still write it. As most on this thread are not willing to talk the real culprit behind this protest which is economic inequality and no hope for future development.

As I mentioned in my earlier posts, these protests are manifestation of inherent economic inequality in Hong Kong society.

The youth in Hong Kong cannot afford a house. The whole economy is standing on a giant real estate bubble under the control of 14 rich billionaires.

This protests can already be foreseen when property was becoming unaffordable without an increase in salary, it was just a matter of time.

Britain is as much to blame for this situation, they never had intention to grant autonomy to Hong Kong and didn't do it for 150 years, they were very clever, as they did in every colony, to let the subsequent administration take the blame in this case Chinese which indeed granted more autonomy than British to Hong Kong.

Britain can cry crocodile tears now as much as they like trying to align with protestors. But they are the one to blame. Hopefully they can correct the mistake by granting full citizenship to Hong Kong permanent residents who wants it, otherwise whatever they say is a farce. Same goes for USA, if they want solidarity with Hong Kong protestors grant them unconditional asylum or permanent residence, rest all talks are worthless.

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#49

Post by skitout »

richthegeek wrote: post #42
skitout wrote: post #30

During yellow vest protests, we've seen thing as violent, and France is not China...

QED https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20916595

You made me realized I have not been clear, and my post could seems to minimize what happen in HK, which was not my intention. I just wanted to point we also need to defend democracy elsewhere, even in "democratic" countries like France.

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#50

Post by [deleted] »

H8crilA wrote: post #27
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #17

What can you do about this? Pretty much nothing. China is the second largest economy in the world, and has the second most powerful military. In addition, what they view as the integrity of China is one of their biggest priorities. In addition, they have always viewed British control of Hong Kong as a national humiliation and are bent on erasing all traces of that memory. The way it stands right now, China can inflic…

This situation we're in is making me really uneasy. WW2 was preceded by tariffs and a freezing of global trade, which messed up the German economy too much, pushed it into an inflationary debt crisis and eventually created Nazism. Nazism was a response to a perceived foreign threat that "did a lot of damage to our people, and it's time for us to be the best". Say the trade war ends up badly and the Chinese debt bubbl…

[deleted]
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