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CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

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Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#91

Post by TulliusCicero »

Reelin wrote: post #76
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be the correct answer. Vaping nicotine should be used only as part of a plan to cease smoking. That’s the only sound advice , if people choose to ignore it then that’s on them. It’d still way less damaging than cigarettes.

The US seems to be in the process of legalizing recreational weed, which is often consumed by inhaling plant smoke. Relative to that (or alcohol), I wouldn't worry too much about vaping nicotine. It doesn't appear to have any significant harmful effects other than being addictive ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine#Adverse_effects ). That being said, not chronically inhaling anything other than air is definitely…

Yeah I'm sure inhaling weed smoke isn't healthy, but at least with weed, very few people inhale it as regularly as cigarette smokers do cigarette smoke.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#92

Post by atlasunshrugged »

testis321 wrote: post #89
atlasunshrugged wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if it really was purely a device for cessation then this could be solved by putting it behind the counter and requiring a prescription. I remember before weed was legal in California there would be a doc office next to a pot shop and you would get your prescription and then walk in. I imagine there would be a market for people who wanted to quit to go to a 5 min doc meeting, they'd verify you're a smoker and…

They do that with cigarettes but kids still get them (atleast in my country). Banning a device is useless, beceause the same vaporizer could be used to other stuff, and it'd be still sold online (from places like china), and customs don't really check every package for what's inside (especially since it usually says "electronic gadget" on the CN22 form). Banning liquids would be easier, but in some places (eg, here),…

Sure, people will always get around things like that if they want to badly enough (see any illegal drug) but if the rate of use is dramatically lowered then it changes the dynamic of the current usage where public health folks are worried many new smokers will enter the market because of the availability.

I agree it's super hard, even with pot (again in CA) when it was illegal it was a bit of a joke to me (and a surprise as someone moving from a conservative area where pot use definitely had to be hidden) because if enough people use it even illegally and it's not considered a police priority, then there's no enforcement/repercussion and people use it willy nilly, often publicly.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#93

Post by rkangel »

johngrefe wrote: post #70
atlasunshrugged wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who was in the industry, what do you think about the argument of vaping being a safer alternative? I see pretty mixed things in the health community but it's tough because some of the argument seems to be that the tobacco industry has acted nefariously in the past so we can't trust any innovation in the space. Is there any known experience similar to vaping/smoking of today that has really minimal health c…

I think it's a lot safer than smoking, there's probably a lot safer methods, but vapings efficacy vs other quit methods is just too good to discard for even slight health risks vs smoking. Only Juul/Pax has a hidden Big Tobacco interest, the rest are either overt or companies that are dedicated to vapor only. Almost all the innovation came from outside Big Tobacco, but all that is coming to an end with FDA'S regulati…

Interestingly, one big manufacturer I worked with specifically avoided making their device a 'cessation aid' - something to help give up. You can think what you want about their motivation, but the explanation they gave is that if you are a cessation aid then you get into medical device territory and so hit a load of extra regulation.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#94

Post by rkangel »

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #78
johngrefe wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a lot safer than smoking, there's probably a lot safer methods, but vapings efficacy vs other quit methods is just too good to discard for even slight health risks vs smoking. Only Juul/Pax has a hidden Big Tobacco interest, the rest are either overt or companies that are dedicated to vapor only. Almost all the innovation came from outside Big Tobacco, but all that is coming to an end with FDA'S regulati…

Okay, didn't realize it was only Juul/Pax that had that hidden interest. I'm mainly in Eastern Europe these days and Philip Morris is pushing IQOS hard (I know it's in a different category but I think it eats at the same market share, younger more affluent health-conscious users who know cigs are bad but still want to smoke something) You mention there probably being safer methods - any idea on them or where I should…

Yes, Juul was bought for $4bn by ALCS which is the parent company behind Philip Morris USA, Marlboro and many other brands.

Philip Morris International (i.e. Europe) is technically a separate entity. They were separated out a while ago (probably to avoid anti-trust issues). In theory they share stuff with the US but the separation is why you're getting different products.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#95

Post by mattbessey »

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #81
Reelin wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it seems like the jury is still out on how much better they actually are than cigarettes No. IT IS NOT. You have been mislead. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, there is currently a lot of FUD and propaganda surrounding vaping. Perhaps due to the term "e-cigarette"? Other than artificial flavors, the major constituents in the liquid are what I listed above - propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, and nicotine. Onl…

Do you have any solid RCTs or meta analysis you could point me to about how much better they are than cigarettes? Agreed, there's a lot of FUD, but a lot of it is coming from sources that give me a lot of hesitation to doubt (lots of public health leaders, tobacco control groups, WHO people) I understand alcohol or weed is more harmful than vaping, I'm personally just interested in cigarettes as that seems to be the…

See https://www.nhs.uk/smokefree/help-and-advice/e-cigarettes which cites

> Public Health England's 2015 independent evidence review found that, based on the available evidence, vaping is around 95% less harmful than smoking. The Royal College of Physicians came to a similar conclusion in its 2016 report 'Nicotine without smoke: tobacco harm reduction'.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#96

Post by stordoff »

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #84
testis321 wrote: post #82

Vaping is great! Take someone who smokes two packs a day, give him a niccotine vape, and he gets all the 'high' he needs to fuel his addiciton, with (by some sources) only 10% of the "bad things" going in his lungs (compared to cigarettes). Less coughing, easier to reduce the dosage (just buy a liquid with less nicotine - you still keep your rutine and cigarette breaks, but slowly lower your addiction level). ...but.…

I think if it really was purely a device for cessation then this could be solved by putting it behind the counter and requiring a prescription. I remember before weed was legal in California there would be a doc office next to a pot shop and you would get your prescription and then walk in. I imagine there would be a market for people who wanted to quit to go to a 5 min doc meeting, they'd verify you're a smoker and…

One thing I'd wonder about is if this might reduce the number of people using it for cessation. One extra hurdle, especially seeing a person in such a formal setting, might be enough for some people.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#97

Post by rkangel »

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #53
johngrefe wrote: post #33

I had a startup in Vaping(nicotine) and am still fairly in touch with the industry. There has been no major innovation in nicotine eliquid that would cause a sudden cluster of issues. It's stayed pretty constant since 2013 with the exception of Salt Nicotine, which Pax labs has a gras study published for. The majority of cases seems to be THC carts where it can be confirmed. One case was confirmed from a dispensary i…

As someone who was in the industry, what do you think about the argument of vaping being a safer alternative? I see pretty mixed things in the health community but it's tough because some of the argument seems to be that the tobacco industry has acted nefariously in the past so we can't trust any innovation in the space. Is there any known experience similar to vaping/smoking of today that has really minimal health c…

If you are an existing smoker and if your device and liquid are from a reputable supplier, absolutely yes.

The problem is that a lot of the industry is not reputable and not well controlled. This means that you can get liquids that contain all sorts of things and devices that heat in an uncontrolled way. Even the perfect liquid if overheated (as it is in many large devices) produces aldehydes. As you might expect, breathing formaldehyde is bad.

The industry also seems to be taking the opportunity to up the nicotine numbers, so if your intention is to give up that's not helping.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#98

Post by Kiro »

Reelin wrote: post #80
atlasunshrugged wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, yes, safer alternative to smoking cigarettes Fair enough, I'm sure it's not healthy to chronically inhale anything other than air > If you're asking about drugs with similar effects to nicotine that are less addictive, I'm not aware of any. You could always purchase vaping liquid that doesn't contain any nicotine though. I was asking that but a broader question for me is, are there any safe replacements for ci…

> it seems like the jury is still out on how much better they actually are than cigarettes No. IT IS NOT. You have been mislead. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, there is currently a lot of FUD and propaganda surrounding vaping. Perhaps due to the term "e-cigarette"? Other than artificial flavors, the major constituents in the liquid are what I listed above - propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, and nicotine. Onl…

You sound extremely biased.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#99

Post by skohan »

copperx wrote: post #67
exDM69 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some groups like T1 diabetics can not have the amount of sugar in "normal" fizzy drinks. That amount of sugar can cause issues from nausea to messed up glucose levels needing hospitalization. Hamburgers and fries are not a problem (not healthy but not dangerous). "Diet Coke" is just a stupid name for sugar free drinks.

Other advantages: no need to brush you teeth immediately after drinking soda to prevent cavities, lighter mouth feel, safer in a car (if you spill the drink there's no sticky residue), T2 diabetes risk reduction vs drinking regular soda, no added insulin response, and if you drink a lot of liquids you can have a few refills without thinking about calories.

You get all those benefits from water also.

Artificial sweeteners also increase appetite and cravings for sweet food, so if you are suffering food-related illness, it's better to stay away from them as well.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#100

Post by skocznymroczny »

exDM69 wrote: post #47
cobbzilla wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of the old joke about the guy at the fast-food joint: I’ll have a double bacon cheeseburger, a large fries, and a diet coke . Like — why are you buying this totally unhealthy meal and then getting a diet coke? Who are you kidding? Yet — I’ve been that guy. So it’s not so mind boggling.

Some groups like T1 diabetics can not have the amount of sugar in "normal" fizzy drinks. That amount of sugar can cause issues from nausea to messed up glucose levels needing hospitalization. Hamburgers and fries are not a problem (not healthy but not dangerous). "Diet Coke" is just a stupid name for sugar free drinks.

Is that actually true? Bread contains very high carbohydrate levels, I'd imagine a hamburger bun is not much worse than a glass of coke.
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